Why did Martin choose to portray Uncat as evil and monstrous?

[James Sucellus]

She's a good character, just doesn't appeal to me nearly as much as Arya, Bran or Sansa. I can't imagine being excited by finding out the next POV chapter is Cat's, like I do with other characters.

[WinterWarrior]

_{I don't see LS as evil at all. She just wants vengeance for the RW and the betrayal by the Freys and Boltons, which is what we all want. She recognizes that the Valyrian Steel in Brienne's sword is from Ice and sees that Brienne has a parchment from Tommen.....so she feel she has been betrayed by someone she trusted fully. I really like this character and hope she is more prominent in books to come and eventually the one who destroys the Freys - with help from others. I also hope Arya gets to unite with her before the destruction occurs and they do it together.}

[Lord Ravenstark]

She isn't an evil monster. She became more bad but, hell, she is a FREAKING ZOMBIE and is just killing Freys and Lannister... okay, some aren't "guilty" but they are Frey and Lannister and will follow their relatives. They murdered her and her son... if someone murder any of my children I would stab the murderer to death.

Cat is a brilliant character, really. Heartbreakingly realistic and unusual in the genre, at least AFAIK. Not your typical fantasy POV. She wins points from me for being so human, so well-written, so unique. She's high on my list of best written characters in ASOIAF.

I'm not that into the whole warging aspect of the books, and I find it difficult to relate to Bran. Yet somehow I really relate to Cat, even though I'm not a mother and we're quite different. She's just plain old good writing.

Sorry for derailing the thread!

Catelyn POVs were just... almost everything but a normal mother.

[The Duke]

She hangs people she perceives as enemies indiscriminately and gives them little our no chance to refute any accusations. Pod and Ser Hyle is enough proof of that. UnCat is barely better than Gregor Clegane.

[Lord Ravenstark]

She hangs people she perceives as enemies indiscriminately and gives them little our no chance to refute any accusations. Pod and Ser Hyle is enough proof of that. UnCat is barely better than Gregor Clegane.

Hyle and Podrick were loyal to the Lannisters. They were sworn enemies. LS never burned a village or killed/tortured non-aligned to the Lannisters people. IIRC she even saved some people.

[Cas Stark]

She hangs people she perceives as enemies indiscriminately and gives them little our no chance to refute any accusations. Pod and Ser Hyle is enough proof of that. UnCat is barely better than Gregor Clegane.

Barely better than a mad dog rapist, baby killer and indiscriminate brutal murdering thug, and probable kinslayer as well?

[The Duke]

Hyle and Podrick were loyal to the Lannisters. They were sworn enemies. LS never burned a village or killed/tortured non-aligned to the Lannisters people. IIRC she even saved some people.

They weren't fighting a battle. The Mountain and his men killed their prisoners for sport and information. UnCat kills her prisoners for "vengence". Motives may be different and not quite as brutal, but it's pretty much the same strategy and they are just as dead. By this logic, Stark enemies are justified in just killing every prisoner they take as well.

[Blede]

Hyle and Podrick were loyal to the Lannisters. They were sworn enemies. LS never burned a village or killed/tortured non-aligned to the Lannisters people. IIRC she even saved some people.

So Rickard Karstark was right killing Willem Lannister and Tion Frey. They were Lannister-aligned after all. I wonder why Robb Stark chopped his head off...

[Heir to His House]

Cat is a brilliant character, really. Heartbreakingly realistic and unusual in the genre, at least AFAIK. Not your typical fantasy POV. She wins points from me for being so human, so well-written, so unique. She's high on my list of best written characters in ASOIAF.

I'm not that into the whole warging aspect of the books, and I find it difficult to relate to Bran. Yet somehow I really relate to Cat, even though I'm not a mother and we're quite different. She's just plain old good writing.

Sorry for derailing the thread!

I agree that Cat was consistently one of the most realistic and well-written POVs, regardless of what anyone thinks of her decision making or descent into being Lady Stoneheart.

I am curious whether we will get a Stoneheart POV though, a la the Mel one that was highly insightful......

[Lord Ravenstark]

So Rickard Karstark was right killing Willem Lannister and Tion Frey. They were Lannister-aligned after all. I wonder why Robb Stark chopped his head off...

Yes, he was right but it was a bad political move since they worth more as captives.

[JungWheats]

Rickard had no right to murder captives, and captive children at that.

I'm of the opinion, however, that Cat and Lady Stoneheart are not really the same being. There is some of her still left in there, but she's been boiled down to nothing but hate and vengeance. She was dead for days. That has to have more of an impact than Beric being out for a few minutes or so.

[Errant Bard]

So Rickard Karstark was right killing Willem Lannister and Tion Frey. They were Lannister-aligned after all. I wonder why Robb Stark chopped his head off...

Ho, hooo... I know! (well, Robb says it himself:)

He executes him because they were under his roof and he he had given them his protection. He executed Kastark because killing the Lannister squires while he promised they were safe was a blemish on his honour.

It was never about their age or their prisoner status. If Robb had decided to put them on trial (for I don't know what, but in response to, for example, Sansa being murdered), he would have had no problem killing them.

Also Robb himself executed someone who just watched and was his defenseless prisoner, after a trial where the accused guy didn't even get to present a defense. But it's ok since people the good guy execute have no PoV or screentime, unlike Brienne and Pod.

she's been boiled down to nothing but hate and vengeance.

You could say the same for Arya (though Arya tends to beat up orphans rather than build orphanages, of course), yet I don't see arguments about Arya not being Arya (except for the totally opposite scenario, where she would abandon vengeance.)

She was dead for days. That has to have more of an impact than Beric being out for a few minutes or so.

Beric died six times, and was pretty clear it was the resurrection that took stuff from him, though. Your reasoning is a bit shaky when you consider that and Colhands, they are both reasonable enough.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I agree UnCat is hanging the guilty, however, the problem with that is UnCat is not a Lord with the power to administer the King's justice. UnCats actions are personal, justified perhaps but not justice.

That's debatable.

1) UnCat is the only "living" adult member of House Stark, making her the defacto regent of the King in the North.

2) UnCat is Lord Tully's older sister. As long as he is unable to fulfill his duties due to being a prisoner, she is in charge of the Riverlands.

3) The BWB elected her their leader. That semi-democratic election makes her a legitimate head of state.

Three good reasons why it's actually UnCat's duty to administer justice.

[jons nissa]

okay, some aren't "guilty" but they are Frey and Lannister and will follow their relatives.

Three good reasons why it's actually UnCat's duty to administer justice.

excellent reasons why a rotting zombie corpse should be killing people.

[The Duke]

So it's ok to execute prisoners if you are a zombie, it's just wrong if you are allied to the Lannister's.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

excellent reasons why a rotting zombie corpse should be killing people.

Excellent quotations. It almost seems as if I advocated genocide... thank you.

[Malcolm of House Tucker]

Yes, UnCat seems to be driven by revenge, but I think some of the aspects that made her "human" are still there. Remember, when Brienne encounters her, she is holding Robb's crown and staring silently down into it. Sure, she is still hellbent on hanging anything and anyone she feels deserves it, but I don't think she could look at her firstborn son's crown and not feel a bit sad inside. It saddens me that she is only depicted as rather mindless and savage, but I won't mind as long as she plays a large role in the upcoming book(s). I hope her character is meant to do something a little more important than just hang a few Freys before being killed off again.

I think UnCat is still looking for her daughter(s). She knows from Beric's men that Arya was still alive when she was abducted by the Hound. And the fact that we hear that UnCat and her outlaws disappeared into the Neck when they were being chased by Freys has me intrigued. If UnCat and the Brotherhood have met with Howland Reed and Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont, they may be plotting some great conspiracy to rid the North and the Riverlands of its enemies....

[Cas Stark]

Yes, UnCat seems to be driven by revenge, but I think some of the aspects that made her "human" are still there. Remember, when Brienne encounters her, she is holding Robb's crown and staring silently down into it. Sure, she is still hellbent on hanging anything and anyone she feels deserves it, but I don't think she could look at her firstborn son's crown and not feel a bit sad inside. It saddens me that she is only depicted as rather mindless and savage, but I won't mind as long as she plays a large role in the upcoming book(s). I hope her character is meant to do something a little more important than just hang a few Freys before being killed off again.

I think UnCat is still looking for her daughter(s). She knows from Beric's men that Arya was still alive when she was abducted by the Hound. And the fact that we hear that UnCat and her outlaws disappeared into the Neck when they were being chased by Freys has me intrigued. If UnCat and the Brotherhood have met with Howland Reed and Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont, they may be plotting some great conspiracy to rid the North and the Riverlands of its enemies....

Yep, I had overlooked that tidbit about the BWB disappearing into the neck until my reread....must mean something. Did anyone ever figure out how exactly she got Robb's crown? From Ryman Frey who kept it despite what Jamie told him?

[Father of Hosts]

Yep, I had overlooked that tidbit about the BWB disappearing into the neck until my reread....must mean something. Did anyone ever figure out how exactly she got Robb's crown? From Ryman Frey who kept it despite what Jamie told him?

That's the general consensus, yes. Or Tom o'Sevens may have stolen it.

[King Stannis]

The people defending Lady Stoneheart in this thread are disturbing me..not because of that fact themselves, but how they justify it