Reexamining Ned's good

[Nephenee]

The fact of how nobody looks down upon Ned, Dany, Jon, Robb, or Jaime for the issue that they take hostages.

Uh, evidence?

[Minsc]

Uh, evidence?

Post a quote of someone mentioning their disdain for those characters for their taking of hostages (that isn't the hostage)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Uh, evidence?

Not even the hostages themselves do. Furthermore, read the statements by the Norrey and Old Flint in Dance.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

sorry I missunderstood

[aceluby]

Wtf? Read the first post.

I did, you don't show one example of him being treated like a hostage, so answer the question. Do you understand how true hostages are treated? Why don't you compare how he was treated to how Jaime was treated and let me know the similarities. You're confusing not being treated like a son with being treated like a hostage.

You don't train hostages. You don't teach them about swords and shooting. You don't show them how to ride. You don't let them eat w/ your children. You don't let them befriend your children. That's not how hostages are treated. He was a ward and was treated as such.

[l3ol3o]

Theon was treated great by the Starks. He was treated like an honored ward. Ned and Robert were probably treated the same way by Jon Arryn. The difference is Ned never loved Theon because he knew one day he may have to kill him.

Ned was holding Theon for the good of the realm and probably for the fact that Ned wanted to look after Theons well being. He probably felt Theon would be safer at WF then as a "ward" of Tywin or Robert for example.

[Minsc]

I did, you don't show one example of him being treated like a hostage, so answer the question. Do you understand how true hostages are treated? Why don't you compare how he was treated to how Jaime was treated and let me know the similarities. You're confusing not being treated like a son with being treated like a hostage.

You don't train hostages. You don't teach them about swords and shooting. You don't show them how to ride. You don't let them eat w/ your children. You don't let them befriend your children. That's how hostages are treated. He was a ward and was treated as such.

Jaime was a prisoner of war, while Theon was a highborn hostage during peacetime thus explaining the difference in the way they were treated. Simply, George has mentioned that the manner that Theon was treated was the customary manner in which highborn hostages were treated in a polite fiction.

[Frey Pie]

It was likely hard for Ned to treat Theon more warmly as he needs to keep a distance so if the time comes he can kill Theon.

If you really think Ned would have taken Theons head because of his fathers actions, then you should pay closer attention to the text my friend. Neds time is defined by children. He defies Robert twice to try save children, and swallows his own and his Houses honor to save more. That the man would behead a child in his care whom he raised as his own, is not really feasible IMHO

[Nephenee]

Post a quote of someone mentioning their disdain for those characters for their taking of hostages (that isn't the hostage)

The burden of proof is on you. My position is the logically simpler claim; yours is the harder to prove one (believing that taking people hostage is considered morally wrong is not as controversial a claim as saying otherwise).

You don't train hostages. You don't teach them about swords and shooting. You don't show them how to ride. You don't let them eat w/ your children. You don't let them befriend your children. That's how hostages are treated. He was a ward and was treated as such.

Well, you don't see Ned rebelling against Jon Arryn now, do you? He certainly wasn't a ward, and he wasn't treated well by anyone except Robb.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

So according to theon and OP treating theon nicely would be to hug him every day in the morning and marry him to sansa? Where is the evidence that Ned ever threatened theon? It was something that theon believed and he believed in lot of stupid shit.

[Minsc]

The burden of proof is on you. My position is the logically simpler claim; yours is the harder to prove one (believing that taking people hostage is considered morally wrong is not as controversial a claim as saying otherwise).

So you have absolutely no proof, okay.

[Nephenee]

So you have absolutely no proof, okay.

You're right. I also have absolutely no proof that pixies don't exist, that Barack Obama doesn't have a gay body builder boyfriend, and so on. But they are all completely absurd claims and no proof is necessary to reject them.

As is your silly notion that taking people hostage was perfectly acceptable in Westeros. In a society where slavery is frowned upon because of denying people their freedom, why on earth would it be okay to take people hostage? It's a completely idiotic statement and not even worth considering.

[Frey Pie]

Jaime was a prisoner of war, while Theon was a highborn hostage during peacetime thus explaining the difference in the way they were treated. Simply, George has mentioned that the manner that Theon was treated was the customary manner in which highborn hostages were treated in a polite fiction.

Still doesnt negate the fact that he was treated extremely well, and likely had as good an upbringing as he would have had anywhere

[Minsc]

As is your silly notion that taking people hostage was perfectly acceptable in Westeros. In a society where slavery is frowned upon because of denying people their freedom, why on earth would it be okay to take people hostage? It's a completely idiotic statement and not even worth considering.

We have a video where George talks about the issue and he never mentions anyone looking down on the practice, neither do we ever see that in the series. Thus, it is obvious that no one had problems with it in their society.

Still doesnt negate the fact that he was treated extremely well, and likely had as good an upbringing as he would have had anywhere

I think most people would rather live with their family, friends, and people rather then someplace where they are a constant outsider.

[Nephenee]

We have a video where George talks about the issue and he never mentions anyone looking down on the practice, neither do we ever see that in the series. Thus, it is obvious that no one had problems with it in their society.

"George" never mentions anything about pixies existing either, and neither do we ever see that in the series.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

[Minsc]

"George" never mentions anything about pixies existing either, and neither do we ever see that in the series.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

You are just making yourself look ridiculous now.

[Frey Pie]

I think most people would rather live with their family, friends, and people rather then someplace where they are a constant outsider.

While this is true, Theon remembers Dagmer with more fondness than anyone else. A child should always be at home with its parents when possible but how good would Theons home life have been? His mother has been driven to madness, his father is arguably mad. Uncle Euron might just molest Uncle Aeron, who became a religious zealot, and Uncle Vic smashes his wifes face to pieces because she like Uncle Euron-not a recipe for a happy childhood, more like a Jeremy Kyle show. However, i do think Theon would have had a far happier time at WF, had more of the Starks been close to his age

[Frey Pie]

You are just making yourself look ridiculous now.

lol was he/she not always?

[Nephenee]

You are just making yourself look ridiculous now.

Not really. Your argument is this:

"No one says anything about people taken hostage being morally frowned upon. Therefore it is morally acceptable."

We have a video where George talks about the issue and he never mentions anyone looking down on the practice, neither do we ever see that in the series. Thus, it is obvious that no one had problems with it in their society.

It's the most basic philosophical fallacy there is, probably.

http://en.wikipedia....nce_of_evidence

It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false

Congrats, you just committed the most basic logical fallacy there is, and then committed another very basic "ad hominem" attack. No one should take you or your posts seriously. But you're fortunate, because the vast majority of the posters on your forum are at your level of competence, so they'll more than likely agree with your silly statements.

[Minsc]

-snip-

Seeing how you have provided nothing that even hints at your argument, excuse me if I don't take it seriously.