Benjen is a Leader of the GNC and the Hooded Man

[Prince of the North]

The Hooded Man is Theon Durden.

I agree. This is what I believe until we get more info. I'll be very surprised if we ever see or hear from the Hooded Man again in the series.

[redriver]

I agree. This is what I believe until we get more info. I'll be very surprised if we ever see or hear from the Hooded Man again in the series.

Or the Hooded Man could turn out to be someone of significance in the series.You might bear in mind that we have no extant eyes in Winterfell once Theon and Jeyne jump.

[alienarea]

Or the Hooded Man could turn out to be someone of significance in the series.You might bear in mind that we have no extant eyes in Winterfell once Theon and Jeyne jump.

No, I'm not saying it again this time.

[Prince of the North]

Or the Hooded Man could turn out to be someone of significance in the series.You might bear in mind that we have no extant eyes in Winterfell once Theon and Jeyne jump.

But I believe he was someone of significance in the series: Theon. We saw him from the POV of Reek and I believe that encounter was the culmination of his journey back to becoming Theon again. I think that was when he truly decided to defy Ramsey and, through that act, took back his identity.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

The "Theon Durden" theory just doesn't hold water for me. It's not written in some dreamy way with vague details, nor does the HM resemble theon (people have said he is speaking to a reflection in the glass gardens). I won't say it's totally out of the realm of possiblity, but would seem like a departure from GRRM's style (in ASOIaF), and I count it as the least likely scenario.

[Prince of the North]

The "Theon Durden" theory just doesn't hold water for me. It's not written in some dreamy way with vague details, nor does the HM resemble theon (people have said he is speaking to a reflection in the glass gardens). I won't say it's totally out of the realm of possiblity, but would seem like a departure from GRRM's style (in ASOIaF), and I count it as the least likely scenario.

But that's just it, I do think much of the time when we are in Reek's POV it does seem disjointed and a bit disoriented (e.g. the large amounts of time that are just skipped when he's wandering around, etc.) Also, how can you say that the Hooded Man doesn't resemble Reek when there's hardly any description of him at all? I mean, he's described as wearing a cloak and that's about the extent of the description and Reek is also wearing a cloak.

I got the impression that the Hooded Man was Reek, basically, having an encounter with Theon the very first time I read it and I've read all the other theories on who the Hooded Man is but I just can't bring myself to change my opinion. I mean, there's the progression of the Reek/Theon-related chapter names in ADWD for starters (I think it means something, others' mileage may vary). Then there's how in the Prince of Winterfell chapter (I think it was) Reek/Theon thinks to himself that "Winterfell is full of ghosts and I am one of them" and then in the Ghost of Winterfell chapter he encounters the Hooded Man. Hmm... Then his next and final chapter in ADWD is titled simply Theon, not Reek, and not anything else like the Prince of Winterfell, etc. - just Theon. As I said, I think that means something.

[Lord Flashheart]

The "Theon Durden" theory just doesn't hold water for me. It's not written in some dreamy way with vague details, nor does the HM resemble theon (people have said he is speaking to a reflection in the glass gardens). I won't say it's totally out of the realm of possiblity, but would seem like a departure from GRRM's style (in ASOIaF), and I count it as the least likely scenario.

This is the entire encounter with The Hooded Man

Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger. “Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer.”

“I’m not. I never ... I was ironborn.”

“False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?”

“The gods are not done with me,” Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick’s cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell’s groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. “Lord Ramsay is not done with me.”

The man looked, and laughed. “I leave you to him, then.”

Not much description given. Out of all of the possible candidates this one seems the most likely to me. This conversation seems so unusual for Theon to be having with anybody.

[Aluminum Link]

No, I'm not saying it again this time.

Ditto :cool4:

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

This is the entire encounter with The Hooded Man

Not much description given. Out of all of the possible candidates this one seems the most likely to me. This conversation seems so unusual for Theon to be having with anybody.

How so? How does this man act like or sound like Theon? GRRM has left certain details ambiguous before to service the story (as in hiding the HM identity) and this seems to be just another case of that. There is nothing in the passage posted that suggests "Theon Durden"...

[Theons missing fingers]

Maester Luwin?

[Prince of the North]

How so? How does this man act like or sound like Theon? GRRM has left certain details ambiguous before to service the story (as in hiding the HM identity) and this seems to be just another case of that. There is nothing in the passage posted that suggests "Theon Durden"...

Wait a minute - you said the Hooded Man does not resemble Reek/Theon. I merely asked how you could make that determination in light of the fact that there is hardly any description of the Hooded Man at all? Then, Lord Flashheart provided the text of the encounter with the Hooded Man to prove that there is hardly any physical description of the Hooded Man provided.

It's perfectly fine if you don't believe the Hooded Man is Theon himself but you certainly can't use their physical descriptions to rule out the possibility.

ETA: Do you have any opinion on whether or not the Reek/Theon-related chapter names in ADWD changing as they progress means anything or not? They are:

Reek I

Reek II

Reek III

The Prince of Winterfell

The Turncloak

A Ghost in Winterfell

Theon I

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Wait a minute - you said the Hooded Man does not resemble Reek/Theon. I merely asked how you could make that determination in light of the fact that there is hardly any description of the Hooded Man at all? Then, Lord Flashheart provided the text of the encounter with the Hooded Man to prove that there is hardly any physical description of the Hooded Man provided.

It's perfectly fine if you don't believe the Hooded Man is Theon himself but you certainly can't use their physical descriptions to rule out the possibility.

The word resemble does not only denote appearance FYI. N2M I never did "rule out the possiblity" I just consider it extrememly unlikely. Now please elaborate based on the actual text why you find it extremely likely. The titles of the chapters are not suggesting a "Theon Durden" situation to me, nor does Theon "change" significantly after that encounter in any way that is not influenced by Mance and his spearwives.

[Prince of the North]

The word resemble does not only denote appearance FYI. N2M I never did "rule out the possiblity" I just consider it extrememly unlikely. Now please elaborate based on the actual text why you find it extremely likely. The titles of the chapters are not suggesting a "Theon Durden" situation to me, nor does Theon "change" significantly after that encounter in any way that is not influenced by Mance and his spearwives.

Ah, we'll simply have to agree to disagree on this one. I did elaborate some above on why I believe Theon Durden but you simply don't and I can live with that.

[Lord Flashheart]

The word resemble does not only denote appearance FYI. N2M I never did "rule out the possiblity" I just consider it extrememly unlikely. Now please elaborate based on the actual text why you find it extremely likely. The titles of the chapters are not suggesting a "Theon Durden" situation to me, nor does Theon "change" significantly after that encounter in any way that is not influenced by Mance and his spearwives.

What I am saying is that the quote I posted above is all we have to go on for the HM. What proof in the text do you have that it was whomever you believe it to be? I am not saying it is 100% Theon Durden, but it seems most likely without making a lot of assumptions.

[Prince of the North]

What I am saying is that the quote I posted above is all we have to go on for the HM. What proof in the text do you have that it was whomever you believe it to be? I am not saying it is 100% Theon Durden, but it seems most likely without making a lot of assumptions.

Lord Flashheart, do you have an opinion on the changing Reek/Theon-related chapter names in ADWD? I think it means something. After all, I just think if it's meaningless then why have them change at all? If it doesn't mean anything then they all should have just been "Reek".

[brut]

Can someone please remind if there are any suggestions in the text that characters (other than Reek/Theon) interact with their own animated alter-egos? Any Jon told Jon?

Not saying that lack of parallels is a refuting argument, but really, has Durden moved Theon/Reek to any unimaginable character building heights that could not have been achieved otherwise

[brut]

As to the chapter titles, I would believe they are indicative of the POV's behavior. i.e. Theon - tortured into Reek - is forcibly and briefly changed into a lord again, then following reminder of his actual name realizes that he is but a ghost of his past, which he embraces as being based on the betrayal. Essentially, Theon's way from Ned's wardship and towards praying at the weirwood is what the titles demonstrate to me.

[Prince of the North]

As to the chapter titles, I would believe they are indicative of the POV's behavior. i.e. Theon - tortured into Reek - is forcibly and briefly changed into a lord again, then following reminder of his actual name realizes that he is but a ghost of his past, which he embraces as being based on the betrayal. Essentially, Theon's way from Ned's wardship and towards praying at the weirwood is what the titles demonstrate to me.

Sure, it's all just varying interpretations at this point. For me, the chapters are named as they are because they relate to Reek/Theon's psychological journey from the persona of "Reek" back to the persona of "Theon". For me, the Hooded Man is the man Reek/Theon used to be and would like to be again and he's basically indicating to Reek/Theon what the man he used to be would think of who he's in danger of becoming in truth (not just pretending to be - Reek).

I think the encounter with the Hooded Man is the culmination of this psychological identity struggle and is the point when Reek truly makes the decision to defy Ramsey and be his own man again. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll be very surprised if we ever see or hear from the Hooded Man again in the story and it's because he's already served his purpose.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Ah, we'll simply have to agree to disagree on this one. I did elaborate some above on why I believe Theon Durden but you simply don't and I can live with that.

:cheers:

Sure, it's all just varying interpretations at this point. For me, the chapters are named as they are because they relate to Reek/Theon's psychological journey from the persona of "Reek" back to the persona of "Theon". For me, the Hooded Man is the man Reek/Theon used to be and would like to be again and he's basically indicating to Reek/Theon what the man he used to be would think of who he's in danger of becoming in truth (not just pretending to be - Reek).

I think the encounter with the Hooded Man is the culmination of this psychological identity struggle and is the point when Reek truly makes the decision to defy Ramsey and be his own man again. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll be very surprised if we ever see or hear from the Hooded Man again in the story and it's because he's already served his purpose.

Then why is he still freaking out during this escape saying Reek things to himself instead of being "Theon" again? He's not smiling, fighting, acting like himself (or the HM) after this supposedly HUGE revelation of meeting himself.

And if we never hear from the HM again that would be a really odd and almost pointless plot device IMHO.

[Prince of the North]

Then why is he still freaking out during this escape saying Reek things to himself instead of being "Theon" again? He's not smiling, fighting, acting like himself (or the HM) after this supposedly HUGE revelation of meeting himself.

Can you elaborate on these "Reek" things? Admittedly, it's been quite some time since I read it but I remember Theon being afraid they might be caught, etc. because they were, of course, doing something very dangerous but I don't recall anything that I'd characterize as a "Reek" thing :dunno: Besides, even if he's still doing some "Reek" things after the encounter with the Hooded Man I still believe that was when he truly decided to defy Ramsey and that defiance is what ultimately allowed him to gain some semblance of agency or self-determination again.

And if we never hear from the HM again that would be a really odd and almost pointless plot device IMHO.

Hmm...regardless of what happens or doesn't happen with the Hooded Man I don't believe it will be an odd and almost pointless plot device. Look, I get it, you don't like the idea that the Hooded Man could be Theon himself and, thus, do not interpret...well, anything that way. And, at this point, that's completely okay. Practically any theories as to who the Hooded Man might be are legitimate as theories. I'm just stating what I believe and why I believe it.