How Do You Think Elia Thought About Lyanna?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I have no idea, except one: feel very, very threatened.

Now imagine what would have happened if Lyanna had lived and Rhaegar won RR? If Elia knows what's good for she'd make the Stark girl's life a living hell until she runs back to Winterfell with her tail between her legs.

That would be quite dumb. Lyanna had a better in with Rhaegar and at least three times the swords backing her than Elia had - near unsurmountable advantages in any bitch feast.

[TheZone]

That bitch be stealing my husband (* enter Jerry Springer Show*)

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Personally, I believe Elia was supportive of Rhaegar. In reality, she was the barren wife of a Targaryren prince and had only produced one heir when the Targaryrens were in serious need of other heirs. Rhaegar taking a second wife was much better than Elia being divorced and her children/family removed from the line of succession.

[Pikachu101]

I have no idea, except one: feel very, very threatened.

That would be quite dumb. Lyanna had a better in with Rhaegar and at least three times the swords backing her than Elia had - near unsurmountable advantages in any bitch feast.

Elia has the advantage of being older and having women behind her. If she bullies Lyanna into running back to Winterfell that's hardly war worthy is it?

[Aethermancer]

Elia's brother was the Red Viper. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have somewhat similar personalities given that GRRM goes out of his way to point out how fond of each other they were. Since they were such close friends as siblings, I wouldn't be surprised if her opinions regarding paramours, etc were similar to Oberyn's.

[David Selig]

Personally, I believe Elia was supportive of Rhaegar. In reality, she was the barren wife of a Targaryren prince and had only produced one heir when the Targaryrens were in serious need of other heirs. Rhaegar taking a second wife was much better than Elia being divorced and her children/family removed from the line of succession.

There's no divorce in Westeros and the Targs weren't in any serious need for other heirs. Aegon, Viserys and Rhanys were enough.

Removing the firstborn son from the succession order is very hard to do too.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Elia has the advantage of being older and having women behind her. If she bullies Lyanna into running back to Winterfell that's hardly war worthy is it?

Unless Rhaegar takes Lyanna's side - which he's likely to do. Unless the hostilities push Lyanna to declare her sons the heirs, with the backing of Winterfell, Riverrun, the Eyrie and probably a bunch of other Lords. Against small Dorne. Elia has nothing to gain from that but emotional satisfaction, but risks a lot.

That doesn't mean she wouldn't rate emotional satisfaction higher, just that it would be dumb, if understandable.

[Kuther2000]

That would be quite dumb. Lyanna had a better in with Rhaegar and at least three times the swords backing her than Elia had - near unsurmountable advantages in any bitch feast.

Yea. Which just proves even more that Elia would be crazy to agree to it.

Elia wouldn't be so open about her hatred until all her cards are in plan. Then she will use poison as her weapon. Like brother like sister. They didn't even see it coming because they thought she was weak. Haha.

If Rhaegar's had won, Rhaegar would have to deal with a depressed bride in Lyanna who probably wouldn't even be the same. You have to remember that if Lyanna did die from childbirth. The child's safety was the only thing she cared about. So while she knew about the happenings of King's Landing, war, her father and brother, Rhaegar, and the sack, she had to think about her child.

Now, Lyanna is alive and presumably healthy. Her father and brother were murdered by her husband's father because of the madness of his genes. Your other brother is probably in exile or forced to live the rest of his life at the Wall. Your nephew(Robb) is technically a hostage most likely so no one will rebel again. Your fiance(Robert-not the drunkard old guy) the handsome, sometimes sweet guy she probably knew him as is dead. A lot of men died in the war that could easily have been averted if you hadn't took off. So she probably also gets snide glances and snickers at court from behind from people who think she is nothing more than a glorified mistress. Then she has to worry about her children surviving because Elia and her family might try to kill them. I wouldn't be surprised if she was a little cray-cray. I mean Barristan thinks that if he had won the tournament lives would be saved. What would Lyanna think about her decisions?

[Kuther2000]

Personally, I believe Elia was supportive of Rhaegar. In reality, she was the barren wife of a Targaryren prince and had only produced one heir when the Targaryrens were in serious need of other heirs. Rhaegar taking a second wife was much better than Elia being divorced and her children/family removed from the line of succession.

Not Barren. She could have children.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Not Barren. She could have children.

:agree: having more children would probably kill her

[Kuther2000]

Elia's brother was the Red Viper. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have somewhat similar personalities given that GRRM goes out of his way to point out how fond of each other they were. Since they were such close friends as siblings, I wouldn't be surprised if her opinions regarding paramours, etc were similar to Oberyn's.

There is a big difference between second wives and paramours. The children of paramours can't inherit. Oberyn is also a man, not married, and not the heir with no real responsibilities outside his children.. He is the one most likely having a lot of women. This is not the case with Elia whose only value is as a wife and mother to some people. She can't go and have a paramour. Oberyn may also be like "hey I am not married man and he is andHe should respect his wife who is my beloved sister" There are many promiscuous guys who wouldn't want you hurting their sister with your promiscuity.

[Kuther2000]

:agree: having more children would probably kill her

I just hate the use of the word especially when it doesn't apply to the case. I feel some people use it as if her barrenous makes her unworthy. Which may not be the case of course. It is also possible that another child may have survived, but she wouldn't. What men like Tywin Lannister and Hoster Tully wouldn't give to know that about their wives?

[Nami]

What I noticed in these books, trying to be faithful to how middle ages women thought and with the exception of a few, most women think they are the ones to blame in case their man cheat on them.

Cersei for once blamed Elia because Rhaegar took interest in someone else. Saying she was too frail and flat chested (her words, really) that's why Rhaegar went after Lyanna, and that if she had married Rhaegar, he would never look at the she-wolf

So maybe Elia blamed herself?

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

There's no divorce in Westeros and the Targs weren't in any serious need for other heirs. Aegon, Viserys and Rhanys were enough.

Removing the firstborn son from the succession order is very hard to do too.

Okay...whatever.

I just hate the use of the word especially when it doesn't apply to the case. I feel some people use it as if her barrenous makes her unworthy. Which may not be the case of course. It is also possible that another child may have survived, but she wouldn't. What men like Tywin Lannister and Hoster Tully wouldn't give to know that about their wives?

I didn't mean it to say that she was unworthy, and I thought it was understood that Lyanna having more children was not going to happen because she could die. I used the word to get my point across quickly, nothing more. Bottom line, she couldn't successfully bare anymore children, which is a big deal when it comes to her position as queen.

[Pikachu101]

Unless Rhaegar takes Lyanna's side - which he's likely to do. Unless the hostilities push Lyanna to declare her sons the heirs, with the backing of Winterfell, Riverrun, the Eyrie and probably a bunch of other Lords. Against small Dorne. Elia has nothing to gain from that but emotional satisfaction, but risks a lot.

That doesn't mean she wouldn't rate emotional satisfaction higher, just that it would be dumb, if understandable.

That would need Lyanna to:

A) not be depressed

B ) be savvy enough to come up with such a plan

C) have the honourable Ned Stark and Jon Arryn do such a thing

[HarryCrackpotter]

Someone remember Ellaria Sand's reaction to the prospect of Oberyn marrying Cercei? It was something like "hum, interesting, I like blondes".

Elia was Oberyn's syster. We know little about her, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was very open sexually and towards a polygamous relation.

GRRM already stated that the Westeros has different values toward sex than our world and that we need to have that in mind to understand the characters actions sometimes.

Another possibility is that Elia and Artur Daynes were in love. I have read this theory somewhere on this forum. As the theory goes, the 2 kids were Artur's, and Jon would be the only real child of Rhaegar.

If that is true, than Elia would see Lyanna as way out of an undesired marriage or at least be more prone to accept that.

I don't buy this theory, but I think interesting. Artur Dayne share some paralels with King Arthur.

their name, both have legendary magical swords.

that would put Artur Dayne in a somewhat Lancelot situation.

Sorry for the spelling erros, english is not my native language, and I am writting in a clap cell phone.

[Pikachu101]

No one would be ok with a threat to their children's inheritance. Elia's feelings for Rhaegar don't matter, it's the fact that Lyanna's sons are a threat to Aegon that would effect Elia's behaviour around her

[Kuther2000]

I didn't mean it to say that she was unworthy, and I thought it was understood that Lyanna having more children was not going to happen because she could die. I used the word to get my point across quickly, nothing more. Bottom line,the couldn't successfully bare anymore children, which is a big deal when it comes to her position as queen.

I could understand if this was said about someone who never had any living children. But this is not the case for Elia. She has two healthy children. A change that could be made is to take out the Targaryen system and go to the system where males are ahead of females but females come before uncles. Rhaella also only had two children. Cersei only had three. Jaehaerys II only had two children too.

Someone remember Ellaria Sand's reaction to the prospect of Oberyn marrying Cercei? It was something like "hum, interesting, I like blondes".Elia was Oberyn's syster. We know little about her, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was very open sexually and towards a polygamous relation.GRRM already stated that the Westeros has different values toward sex than our world and that we need to have that in mind to understand the characters actions sometimes.Another possibility is that Elia and Artur Daynes were in love. I have read this theory somewhere on this forum. As the theory goes, the 2 kids were Artur's, and Jon would be the only real child of Rhaegar.If that is true, than Elia would see Lyanna as way out of an undesired marriage or at least be more prone to accept that.I don't buy this theory, but I think interesting. Artur Dayne share some paralels with King Arthur.their name, both have legendary magical swords.that would put Artur Dayne in a somewhat Lancelot situation.Sorry for the spelling erros, english is not my native language, and I am writting in a clap cell phone.

Ellaria Sand is also a bastard with no inheritance. There is no threat to her children. Oberyn hasn't even married her. This just means that Oberyn found a woman who gets him and who is bisexual. There has never been any evidence that Elia was bisexual. Oberyn also would have all the power in the relationship unlike Elia.

But we also don't know about the values that Elia had. Doran and Quentyn don't seem to be the same as Oberyn and they are in the same family. There is not talk of Doran having paramours even though in his case it would be very much accepted.

I don't know about the whole Arthur and Elia in love. I highly doubt it. I have read the theory, but it just seems to reinforce Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship and true love story while downgrading Elia's possible feelings about the situation. It also seems to take away from what Elia did which was give Rhaegar two trueborn children because she knew her duty. If any one of the children would be someone else's it would be Rhaenys not Aegon. Rhaegar even remembers the night Aegon was conceived.

Arthur Dayne the paragon of Knighthood having an affair with his best friend and prince's wife. Not likely.

[Kuther2000]

No one would be ok with a threat to their children's inheritance. Elia's feelings for Rhaegar don't matter, it's the fact that Lyanna's sons are a threat to Aegon that would effect Elia's behaviour around her

:agree:

[Bright Blue Eyes]

That would need Lyanna to:

A) not be depressed

B ) be savvy enough to come up with such a plan

C) have the honourable Ned Stark and Jon Arryn do such a thing

A) which is in no way sure. Extremely pissed or only caring for her children are as likely

B) a rock would be savvy enough to come up with such a plan.

C) Honorable Ned Stark and Jon Arryn could value their nephews higher than ...nothing. Especially as they already are extremely pissed with the Targaryen main line.