Jaime: one of best swordsmen in history of Westeros

[Victor227]

It's easy for us to underestimate Jaime, because we only see him really fight once, and it's after he's been sitting on his rear unable to move or practice for months. That does -wonders- for reducing stamina, strength, and focus. And even then, Brienne doesn't walk away unscathed. As is, in the one battle in the series he takes part in, he may not have shown himself well strategically, but everyone was left in awe when he managed to break through the Northmen at the Whispering Wood, reaching and slaughtering Robb's personal guard left and right. Barristan also uses him as a metric for sheer genius natural swordsmanship.

[Nephenee]

Jaime was malnourished and chained as well.

[Ser Areo Mace]

I see it as he's only talking about the living.

[Ingelheim]

I have always thought that Selmy or Jaime in their best are as good as Dayne was. The difference was Dayne's sword.

[Vengeance]

I see it as he's only talking about the living.

This. The phrasing suggests he's referring to Strongboar, the Greatjon and the Cleganes. How could he defeat dead people?

[Nephenee]

This. The phrasing suggests he's referring to Strongboar, the Greatjon and the Cleganes.

How? What in the syntax and the semantics indicates that?

If he was only talking about the living, GRRM would have written "Jaime could beat anyone alive." Instead, Jaime chose "all."

[Vengeance]

He thinks to himself in the present tense 'with speed and skill, Jamie could beat them all'. You can't fight the dead. All could just mean those listed in the preceding clause beginning 'Amongst the living'

[StannisBamfatheon]

Since when has Jaime Lannister lacked coincidence? And he is known as a prodigious swordsmen. This is completely congruent with his pre hand removal character,

[Nephenee]

He thinks to himself in the present tense 'with speed and skill, Jamie could beat them all'. You can't fight the dead. All could just mean those listed in the preceding clause beginning 'Amongst the living'

Jaime could have meant that, as his current self (hence "could beat"), barring all the disadvantages he had against Brienne, he could have beaten Arthur Dayne.

For example, let's say I'm the world's best chess player. Right now, I could beat Garry Kasparov at his prime. I'm talking in the present tense about a past figure.

[mormont]

I can see the argument that 'Jaime could beat them all' refers to the living only, but I think that on balance the fairest reading is that it refers to everyone he's just named. Jaime's considering whether he can beat Brienne, in the context of her being physically stronger than him, and he certainly numbers Dayne, Robert and the White Bull amongst those he's fought who are physically stronger than him. If he is listing those he could beat as well as those he could not, it's odd that he wouldn't make a clear distinction. Particularly if the dead include those who he could beat as well as those he could not. I can't see it as likely that Jaime would think himself incapable of defeating the White Bull or Robert.

[Nephenee]

I can't see it as likely that Jaime would think himself incapable of defeating the White Bull or Robert.

Especially Robert. Robert was pretty much the worst match up possible for a man like Jaime, who considered his skill and speed to be his greatest asset--which have an advantage over Robert's raw strength with a warhammer.

[Sleeve of Wizard]

I think a quote from the venerable Kid Rock is in order here: "It ain't bragging if you can back it up." And much like the San Francisco 49'ers, on paper you should not bet against them but as has been described one wet patch of grass or in the niners case an errant pass to Michael Crabtree...

[RedDeadWedding]

Speed beats size

[Ser Areo Mace]

Speed beats size

Only if there's room to dance.

[Lord Damian]

GRRM has stated that Ser Jaime, pre - hand loss was one of the best swordsmen that ever lived in Westeros. Considering Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Arthur Dayne and, surprisingly missing from Ser Jaime's boast, Ser Barristan Selmy, that is quite a complement.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Speed beats size

Are we still talking about swordplay?

[Nephenee]

surprisingly missing from Ser Jaime's boast, Ser Barristan Selmy, that is quite a complement.

I don't know if you're trying to say that Barristan > Jaime or not, but GRRM has already stated that Barristan = Dayne.

[mormont]

Speed beats size

Not always. With size comes strength, and strength often goes with speed, contrary to common stereotypes. The point of Jaime's quote is that in addition to his skill and speed, he is unusually strong: he can think of only a handful of men he's fought who were physically stronger.

GRRM has stated that Ser Jaime, pre - hand loss was one of the best swordsmen that ever lived in Westeros. Considering Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Arthur Dayne and, surprisingly missing from Ser Jaime's boast, Ser Barristan Selmy, that is quite a complement.

It's not a boast, though, and there's a very good (and unsurprising) reason Barristan isn't on that list. It's not a list of elite fighters: it's a list of men Jaime knows are physically stronger than he is. Barristan isn't on it because he isn't physically stronger. Is he better than Jaime? We don't know.

[DreamSongs]

Even Selmy considers Jaime 'the best natural swordsmen he had ever seen'. Jaime had the speed, the skill, the training and the drive to be the best. I would think that Selmy and Jaime would be equally matched by the knowledge that they had of eachother.

[RedDeadWedding]

Not always. With size comes strength, and strength often goes with speed, contrary to common stereotypes. The point of Jaime's quote is that in addition to his skill and speed, he is unusually strong: he can think of only a handful of men he's fought who were physically stronger.

It's not a boast, though, and there's a very good (and unsurprising) reason Barristan isn't on that list. It's not a list of elite fighters: it's a list of men Jaime knows are physically stronger than he is. Barristan isn't on it because he isn't physically stronger. Is he better than Jaime? We don't know.

Are we still talking about swordplay?

I am, yes. I have experience with swordplay, and someone who can move well beats the stronger man nine times out of ten.