Please Put More About Maekar's Family in the Book

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The really tricky thing with this whole thing is that it is stated that the marriage between Daeron and Myriah brought Dorne into the Realm. The fact that it was the marriage between Daenerys and Maron is a retcon - or we could also say that the details grew with the telling.

The original trigger for this question was that I wanted to understand why GRRM himself considers Aegon the Unworthy the worst king Westeros ever had. With the assumption that he may have been the one who arranged the marriage between Daeron and Myriah such a thing sounded problematic to me.

I can't remember thinking that Daeron and Myriah's wedding brought Dorne into the realm... But then again, when I discovered the series, I read all five of the books within several weeks, so I probably missed a lot on my first read, and afterwards, I went onto the internet to put all the pieces of the puzzles together :) Stories do grow in the telling, so perhaps this is what happened.

If Aegon IV had arranged the marriage between Daeron and Myriah, or between Maron and Daenerys, he would have done a lot of good, since he would have been the king to unite the seven kingdoms. But the wedding of Daeron and Myriah was arranged by Baelor the Blessed, and the marriage between Daenerys and Maron was arranged by Daeron II, giving all the credit to Daeron II to unite all the kingdoms eventually.

Baelor might have asked Aegon IV for his promision to marry Daeron to Myriah, since Daeron is Aegon's son. So perhaps Aegon did have a little influence.

I can understand your confusion about it though :)

[Lord Varys]

Well, before I asked that question it was not yet (publicly) known that Baelor was the one who married Daeron to Myriah. But there are quotes about the marriage between Daeron and Myriah being the decisive thing. The most prominent is this from the appendix of AGoT:

'Daeron II [Queen Naerys’ son, by Aegon or Aemon, [Daeron brought Dorne into the realm by wedding the Dornish princess Myriah.]'

There are two other things from the AGoT Targaryen appendix that have been retconned over the years. The first being the change from Viserys II from the fourth son of Aegon III to his younger brother, and the second being the age difference between Rhaenyra and Aegon II. She is still listed as being one year older than Aegon, not ten (Viserys II entry has been changed in later editions).

I think the first thing was brought to GRRM's attention by Linda and Elio over a decade ago. Considering the fact that Viserys II is the father of Aegon, Naerys, and Aemon as well as the grandfather of Daeron II it does not add up age-wise that these should be four generations instead of three - especially considering the fact that Daeron I and Baelor I together only ruled for 14 years.

When I asked my question I had not considered the possibility that Daeron II may have been married to Myriah by Baelor the Blessed (or Viserys II, for that matter). I assumed that Daeron and Daenerys were not as far apart age-wise as we now know, so I assumed that Aegon might have been the one who brokered the deal (either as king or as Daeron's father). And if that had been the case it would have been very strange to consider him to be the worst Targaryen king ever.

If we assume that the Daeron-Myriah-marriage brought Dorne into the Realm then the credit for this thing should go to whichever king arranged that marriage (i.e. Baelor, Viserys, Aegon, or Daeron II). The real news in that quote is the revelation that it was not Daeron's marriage to Myriah but Daenerys's to Maron that brought Dorne into the Realm.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Well, before I asked that question it was not yet (publicly) known that Baelor was the one who married Daeron to Myriah. But there are quotes about the marriage between Daeron and Myriah being the decisive thing. The most prominent is this from the appendix of AGoT:

'Daeron II [Queen Naerys’ son, by Aegon or Aemon, [Daeron brought Dorne into the realm by wedding the Dornish princess Myriah.]'

There are two other things from the AGoT Targaryen appendix that have been retconned over the years. The first being the change from Viserys II from the fourth son of Aegon III to his younger brother, and the second being the age difference between Rhaenyra and Aegon II. She is still listed as being one year older than Aegon, not ten (Viserys II entry has been changed in later editions).

I think the first thing was brought to GRRM's attention by Linda and Elio over a decade ago. Considering the fact that Viserys II is the father of Aegon, Naerys, and Aemon as well as the grandfather of Daeron II it does not add up age-wise that these should be four generations instead of three - especially considering the fact that Daeron I and Baelor I together only ruled for 14 years.

When I asked my question I had not considered the possibility that Daeron II may have been married to Myriah by Baelor the Blessed (or Viserys II, for that matter). I assumed that Daeron and Daenerys were not as far apart age-wise as we now know, so I assumed that Aegon might have been the one who brokered the deal (either as king or as Daeron's father). And if that had been the case it would have been very strange to consider him to be the worst Targaryen king ever.

If we assume that the Daeron-Myriah-marriage brought Dorne into the Realm then the credit for this thing should go to whichever king arranged that marriage (i.e. Baelor, Viserys, Aegon, or Daeron II). The real news in that quote is the revelation that it was not Daeron's marriage to Myriah but Daenerys's to Maron that brought Dorne into the Realm.

Ok, I see.

I had never noticed that Rhaenyra was said to be one year older than Aegon II. I just saw it in my copy of aGoT, I just had to look it up when i read your post. It's interesting to see how those things have changed.

I read a SSM a week ago in which GRRM said that he had envisioned how old all the Targaryen kings were during their reign, but that he hadn't really considered how it would all fit in age-wise. This, and Rhaenyra/AegonII probably are very good examples of that. :)

[Bael's Bastard]

The really tricky thing with this whole thing is that it is stated that the marriage between Daeron and Myriah brought Dorne into the Realm. The fact that it was the marriage between Daenerys and Maron is a retcon - or we could also say that the details grew with the telling.

The original trigger for this question was that I wanted to understand why GRRM himself considers Aegon the Unworthy the worst king Westeros ever had. With the assumption that he may have been the one who arranged the marriage between Daeron and Myriah such a thing sounded problematic to me.

The marriage Baelor sealed between Daeron and Myriah brought peace with Dorne, and created the possibility of a Targaryen king with Dornish blood down the line. Aegon built wooden dragons and tried and failed to conquer Dorne with them, and I imagine was a real setback to whatever the marriage set up by Baelor temporarily brought. The marriage Daeron, already married to a Dornish woman and with heirs by her, sealed between Meron and Daenerys brought Dorne fully into the Seven Kingdoms.

[Lord Varys]

Yes, we know that know. But when I asked GRRM the question this was not the case.

[Lord Varys]

To finally settle the question of the date of Daenerys's marriage to Maron and the union between Dorne and the Iron Throne:

In TSS Egg makes it explicit that Daeron II had already Dorne brought into the Realm by the time Daemon rebelled:

His [Egg's] voice was full of doubts. “Why would Ser Eustace rise against King Daeron? He was a good king, everybody says so. He brought Dorne into the realm and made the Dornishmen our friends.”

Although Egg talks about Ser Eustace here it is said that Eustace Osgrey rose with the Black Dragon. This means that he joined Daemon in his rebellion, and that this rebellion only took place after King Daeron had brought into the Realm. We have also reason to believe that some time passed between the marriage between Maron and Daenerys (which would have marked the official union between the Iron Throne and Dorne) and the rebellion since this whole thing was considered to be one Daeron's greatest accomplishments. I doubt that anyone would have considered Daeron 'a good king' (or 'the Good', for that matter) if the union had not been reaped rewards for many people in the Seven Kingdoms.

One could call Egg biased in this whole thing, say that he'd tend to overestimate his grandfather's political achievements, but I very much doubt that he would err on the time line of events. He would not indicate that Ser Eustace rebelled against the Iron Throne after Daeron had brought Dorne into the Realm if it was public knowledge that Daeron only brought Dorne into the Realm after the Blackfyre rebellion was crushed. If that was the case Daeron II would not have been known as a good/great king before the rebellion, and thus Ser Eustace's decision to support Daemon would not have been as problematic from Egg's POV as it de facto is.

Perhaps this matter is now settled once and for all.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Good, good, good question Lord Varys. There is plenty of mystery around Egg's third son, who was disinherited. (like Maekar disinherited the Brightflame) Ironic how Egg had to resort to what his father did, even though Egg grew up to be much more humble when compared to his father and brother you might say.

Where is it stated Egg's third son was disinherited? This is the first I've heard about that.

Lord Varys. For me, the matter won't be settled until I've learned about which year it happened in, but hen again, I love the details. But what you said in your post did help a lot with putting things in perspective, so thank you :)

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Good, good, good question Lord Varys. There is plenty of mystery around Egg's third son, who was disinherited. (like Maekar disinherited the Brightflame) Ironic how Egg had to resort to what his father did, even though Egg grew up to be much more humble when compared to his father and brother you might say.

Where is it stated Egg's third son was disinherited? This is the first I've heard about that.

Lord Varys. For me, the matter won't be settled until I've learned about which year it happened in, but hen again, I love the details. But what you said in your post did help a lot with putting things in perspective, so thank you :)

[Mark Antony]

There'll be plenty about Maekar and his children in the book. In fact, some will be surprised by just how much... ;)

Plenty about all of Egg's sons.

:drool: :drool: :drool:

I'm almost as excited for this as I am for Winds of Winter.