Arthur Dayne's Honor Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 what do you know about the ladder?enough to know you will never make it to the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheagar Prime Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 because they don't like her.Still really disappointed by her lack of using them more hopefully quentyn's folly gives me my wish of more dragon action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonNonRegis Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 To me, Dany receiving the eggs is not even close to a plot gift.Targaryens and dragon eggs have a long association in GRRMworld. Maester Aemon, for instance, and his siblings had them too. It's not even close to unlikely as a wedding present from someone wealthy, well-connected, and well-informed like Mopatis.However.Dany hatching her eggs? That is a plot gift. She had no earthly way to know what she was doing. She had read no book of ancient dragon lore. She was instructed by no Dumbledore. And there was no precedent for her successful attempt whatever, spanning 150 years of steady effort by all her Targaryen ancestors.About the most you can do is guess that somehow her dragondreams magically implanted the knowledge in her... and that never happened to any of the other Targs going back 150 years because... er.... well... it would be inconvenient for GRRM, that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 My point is, you call those things plot gifts but they actually DID earn them: Arya saved the men's lives and Sansa saved Dontos's.I don't think you understood what I was saying. Arya got a FM to help her, Sansa got a drunk pervert that betrayed her twiceIf you compare what the 2 girls got in return for the same act of kindness it is clear how one was luckier than the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Hatching the eggs is a form of plot gift, just like Stark wargs/direwolfs aplenty, Lannisters endless gold, Stannis shadowbinder, Tyrell troops generator, Euron dragonbinder/warlocks. What plot gifts had the Tully's or Arryn's received? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Ironborn Son Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The Starks have suffered a lot, but so has Dany. She lost: her father, mother, both brothers (one of whom was abusive), her sister-in-law, niece, nephew (?), her kingdom, her home, her husband, her son. Most of the khalaser had abandoned her at that point.I'm not even gonna touch MMD's death because that's just a little too gray for me.You severely overestimate how much help Dany got in the beginning. We don't know the extent to which Varys helped her (if he did at all), and her sent an assassin after her on Robert's orders, so he likely thought she was expendable. We knew Dany and Viserys we sheltered by Darry for a while, but much of their childhood they were on their own, selling heirlooms to survive, or briefly being taken in by people who wanted to exploit them. Even Illyrio didn't bat an eye to their suffering until he found a benefit for himself.She bought that army fair and square-she made a deal and carried it through. While I don't agree with her choices, there was no agreement saying that she couldn't attack Astapor.I don't think we can say that she really bought the army fair...she basically survived with her 'khalasar' because she had dragons and was seen as an amusement.As to suffering, I don't know if it necessarily is fair considering she didn't know her family or her place in Westeroes outside the stories she heard from her crazy brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I have seen this mentioned on several threads that she is nothing without her dragons and that she is lucky.Yes her dragons are what made her who she is, but under no circumstances is it a plot gift.She lost her husband, and son in order to get them.And plot wise it would make sense for the last confirmed Targaryen to get a dragon rather than other characters.And its not like she is going to have all the 3 dragons at the end of the day, how is it a "plot gift'?They lack the literary understanding of what a plot gift is and run to the easiest translation on the web and argue look a plot gift. Plot gifts are usually something that aids a character drasticly in a crucial moment that arent explained thoroughly or developed before hand Dany's dragon eggs are pretty much developed even to the point that they are given time to grow and have to be trained and are explained with in the text. Even when they are given to her they are assumed to be in active eggs. On the other hand we have a witch who births 2 shadow babies out of the middle of nowhere which in the text was never developed before hand. It saves a character from an upcoming huge one sided battle and is done twice that is a plot gift. Now we can see two different examples somewhat of a comparison it brings things into perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoalover1956 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I don't think we can say that she really bought the army fair...she basically survived with her 'khalasar' because she had dragons and was seen as an amusement.As to suffering, I don't know if it necessarily is fair considering she didn't know her family or her place in Westeroes outside the stories she heard from her crazy brother.Well I guess it might be a matter of opinion, then. I think she bought the army fairly, but didn't use it fairly. As for the suffering part, that's a question I've been confronted with several times and still don't know how to answer: is it worse to love and lose or to never have and constantly wonder what-could-have-been? But either way, you can't deny she had rough for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I have seen this mentioned on several threads that she is nothing without her dragons and that she is lucky.Yes her dragons are what made her who she is, but under no circumstances is it a plot gift.She lost her husband, and son in order to get them.And plot wise it would make sense for the last confirmed Targaryen to get a dragon rather than other characters.And its not like she is going to have all the 3 dragons at the end of the day, how is it a "plot gift'?I think people have really come to overdo the "plot gift" / "plot armour" idea. In this case, Dany hatching dragons is not a plot gift - it is the plot. She is the "mother of dragons". It's the core of her story, without which she and her character arc could not even be similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hug0r Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I think that not many of us anticipated that the dragons would go bad. I know it sounds stupid now but I think that most of us accustomed to Dany's 'Mary Sue' story arc and when things started to go bad it came as as surprise but a thankful one; or at least it did for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 It doesn't change the fact that literally nobody in Essos would care about her if she didn't have them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 They aren't a plot gift.They define who she is "Mother of Dragons" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 It doesn't change the fact that literally nobody in Essos would care about her if she didn't have themThen there would be no point of her being in the story.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Then there would be no point of her being in the story....Oh dare to dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The dragons have been more a curse than a gift, imoIn Qarth everyone wanted her because of the dragons. And yes, Drogon saved her from the Undying but the dragons were the reason they wanted her in the first place and in Meereen they are more of a liability.Yes, they were useful in Astapor but that's about it, I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Balerion Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Dany hatching her eggs? That is a plot gift.She had no earthly way to know what she was doing. She had read no book of ancient dragon lore.She did receive books on dragons from Jorah on her wedding day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Balerion Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I don't care if she receives plot gifts. It's just that her enemies appear so dim-witted.But yeah, she has received too many gifts.The dragon eggsThe ships from XaroUnsullied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I just depressed myself by imagining Daenery's life story without the dragon eggs hatching during the suttee. A lot. It is very sad.When I read AGOT for the first time, I initially thought Dany was committing suicide. I still wonder if that was what she intended, and instead, found that she'd hatched the three dragons.Maybe for the spell to work, the person casting the spell has to sacrifice herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 The thing that bugs me with the dragon eggs is, per the books, they're probably worth enough gold to raise a larger and more reliable army than the 10,000 dothraki they're supposedly expecting to get from the marriage.I hope we do get more insight into Varys and Illiryo's plans in WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 I just depressed myself by imagining Daenery's life story without the dragon eggs hatching during the suttee. A lot. It is very sad.This is so true. If she had died that day, her story would have been really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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