The Stone Beast Breathing Shadow Fire

[Ygrain]

I'm also still wondering, if the lie has to do with greyscale and not Aegon (in which case it wouldn't be redundant), what is the lie and what does it have to do with Dany? I haven't actually seen anyone successfully argue what the lie about greyscale actually is.

I'd swear that I have suggested up the thread that the lie might be something about the origin and effects of greyscale on behalf of the maesters?

Rolly Duckfield likes yet another version of the tale, in which the Shrouded Lord was a statue at first, and a grey woman from the fog kissed life to it with lips as cold as ice

Now, if something may suggest unnatural origin of the disease, this is it pale cold women are generally bad news in ASOIAF.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'd swear that I have suggested up the thread that the lie might be something about the origin and effects of greyscale on behalf of the maesters?

Rolly Duckfield likes yet another version of the tale, in which the Shrouded Lord was a statue at first, and a grey woman from the fog kissed life to it with lips as cold as ice

Now, if something may suggest unnatural origin of the disease, this is it pale cold women are generally bad news in ASOIAF.

And what does that have to do with Dany?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I'd swear that I have suggested up the thread that the lie might be something about the origin and effects of greyscale on behalf of the maesters?

Yea greyscale seems more like magic is behind it rather than a disease.

[Ghost's Shadow]

From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

Jon has been associated before with shadow and fire:

The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had seen his danger before, had tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. He would not listen.

He could be a 'shadow' because he does not yet know his real identity, half his parents. The representation of said supposed missing parent is beyond a doubt fire.

Not saying the following belongs with the quotes as well, but here it is nonetheless:

No, Dany wanted to say, no, not that, you mustn’t, but when she opened her mouth, a long wail of pain escaped, and the sweat broke over her skin. What was wrong with them, couldn’t they see? Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and the bloody bath, dark against the sandsilk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames.

A possible candidate, for some, is Jon Snow.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Jon has been associated before with shadow and fire:

He could be a 'shadow' because he does not yet know his real identity, half his parents. The representation of said supposed missing parent is beyond a doubt fire.

Not saying the following belongs with the quotes as well, but here it is nonetheless:

A possible candidate, for some, is Jon Snow.

Was this from MMD's tent?

[Ghost's Shadow]

The last one, yes.

[Leto]

What is the "lie" involved with greyscale and what significance is it to Dany?

That JonCon is the source of the occurance of gray scale in westeros. Exposing the gray scale source seems relevant to a person trying to take over a ravaged, starving, gray scale infested people.

[Veltigar]

Personally, I quite like the Jon angle because we really aren't sureabout most things in the vision. I mean how many third parts of the visions have already been fulfilled? None, IIRC because the third set is saved for tWoW and aDoS. Thus the obvious JonCon lying about his greyscale (which I agree doesn't really affect Dany) can't be it.

[thewingedwolf]

This is a very interesting theory by Apple Martini.

I admit I never really thought of it that way. I always thought the great stone beast breathing shadow fire had to do with Dragonstone. Aside from the obvious name reference, Dragonstone has many gargoyle-like figures (i.e. stone dragon). Also it is at Dragonstone that the plan was hatched to use a shadow baby to kill Renly.

Finally, the smoking tower aspect could be symbolic of Stannis's burning of the statue of the seven.

I am pretty sure that there is more than meets the eye at Dragonstone (it is not for nothing that Stannis started mining for obsidian there).

Thoughts?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

That JonCon is the source of the occurance of gray scale in westeros. Exposing the gray scale source seems relevant to a person trying to take over a ravaged, starving, gray scale infested people.

But how is that specific to Dany? I just don't see how JonCon being Patient Zero is the kind of lie in question here. And is he even going to bother outright lying about it? "No, it wasn't me"?

[thewingedwolf]

But how is that specific to Dany? I just don't see how JonCon being Patient Zero is the kind of lie in question here. And is he even going to bother outright lying about it? "No, it wasn't me"?

I agree I don't really see how this fits in. Besides, aren't Targaryens immune to Greyscale (much like they are to other diseases)?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Personally, I quite like the Jon angle because we really aren't sureabout most things in the vision. I mean how many third parts of the visions have already been fulfilled? None, IIRC because the third set is saved for tWoW and aDoS. Thus the obvious JonCon lying about his greyscale (which I agree doesn't really affect Dany) can't be it.

Yeah, I think it's problematic that so many people assume that every vision has already been solved. There are enough associations between Jon, shadow, fire and even the tower (as has been said, there's also the Shadow Tower on the Wall, on top of the Tower of Joy) that I think this is a fair guess at the very least. The specific "stone beast" part could very well be something that just hasn't happened YET.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I agree I don't really see how this fits in. Besides, aren't Targaryens immune to Greyscale (much like they are to other diseases)?

Ehhh they're not immune to greyscale or any other disease. Great Spring Sickness, Naerys being sickly all her life, Dany's illness at the end of ADWD. Shireen has Targ blood and she still caught greyscale. The disease itself was supposedly vengeance against VALYRIANS, so it follows that they'd be at risk of catching it too.

Targ sickness immunity is not a thing, just like their immunity to fire is not a thing.

[thewingedwolf]

Ehhh they're not immune to Greyscale or any other disease. Great Spring Sickness, Naerys being sickly all her life, Dany's illness at the end of ADWD. Shireen has Targ blood and she still caught greyscale. The disease itself was supposedly vengeance against VALYRIANS, so it follows that they'd be at risk if catching it too.

Targ sickness immunity is not a thing, just like their immunity to fire is not a thing.

I know they are not immuned to fire but wasn't there a passage somewhere that mentions that Dany does not get infected with Pale Mare even though its contagious and everyone else around seems to have it (I think it was when she distributes food to her followers). I could be wrong on that however . . .

Edit: I guess what is mentioned is that they are more resistant to certain diseases . . . I any case I don't want to derail the thread with this

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I know they are not immuned to fire but wasn't there a passage somewhere that mentions that Dany does not get infected with Pale Mare even though its contagious and everyone else around seems to have it (I think it was when she distributes food to her followers). I could be wrong on that however . . .

She's had a fever before because she recognizes what it is when she has it again at the end of ADWD. Whatever it is exactly that's wrong with her there at the end, she is most definitely sick with something.

[thewingedwolf]

She's had a fever before because she recognizes what it is when she has it again at the end of ADWD. Whatever it is exactly that's wrong with her there at the end, she is most definitely sick with something.

Fair enough, sorry for side tracking the discussion.

[Ygrain]

Ehhh they're not immune to greyscale or any other disease. Great Spring Sickness, Naerys being sickly all her life, Dany's illness at the end of ADWD. Shireen has Targ blood and she still caught greyscale. The disease itself was supposedly vengeance against VALYRIANS, so it follows that they'd be at risk if catching it too.

Targ sickness immunity is not a thing, just like their immunity to fire is not a thing.

Not to mention Daeron who died of pox contracted from a whore, and Maekar has pox scars. Not exactly a shining picture of disease immunity.

Perhaps time for another Public Service Announcement thread, with this nice conscise list?

I know they are not immuned to fire but wasn't there a passage somewhere that mentions that Dany does not get infected with Pale Mare even though its contagious and everyone else around seems to have it (I think it was when she distributes food to her followers). I could be wrong on that however . . .

This seems to be something that has originated on the forums. There are a whole lot of people distributing the food, mostly the Unsullied, and as of now, there is no mention of them dying of Pale Mare.

[thewingedwolf]

This seems to be something that has originated on the forums. There are a whole lot of people distributing the food, mostly the Unsullied, and as of now, there is no mention of them dying of Pale Mare.

Ya I realize that, apologies for the dumb moment. Its been a long week . . . .

[Ygrain]

Ya I realize that, apologies for the dumb moment. Its been a long week . . . .

Never mind, it's just that I've seen this particular phrasing before and it seems no less contagious than the Pale Mare itself :D

[thewingedwolf]

Never mind, it's just that I've seen this particular phrasing before and it seems no less contagious than the Pale Mare itself :D

Thanks!! Few more beers and I should be back to my old self again