Sansa_Stark Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The point is, a lord of Renly's stature had to be awarded a seat suitable to his station. Same can be said for Stannis, who got Dragonstone, which used to be the seat of the Crown Prince during Targaryen rule.not really. If the rebellion hadn't happened, hen neither Stannis or Renly would have inherited anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 not really. If the rebellion hadn't happened, hen neither Stannis or Renly would have inherited anything. But the context of this discussion is post rebellion, surely, right? When Bobert had become King. Even for a pre-rebellion scenario, remember how LF remarks about how Loras' inclusion into KG rids Mace Tyrell the trouble of finding suitable holdings for him. Sons of such a great house generally go on to hold lands of there own, even if they stand bannermen tot heir father or elder brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Robert should have kept Dragonstone for his son and sent Jaime Lannister to hold it in his name as Castellan. Removes Jaime from his court while still disinheriting him and it can be all disguised as being an honor. Once Joffrey comes of age he can be Jaime's page/squire before graduating to Prince of Dragonstone. Stannis should have been given Storm's End to be Robert's strong right hand should any war break out.Renly when he came of age should have been given the Ruins of Summerhall (and funds to rebuild). That way he can be a diplomatic link between all three most Southerly Kingdoms (borders Reach, Dorne and the Stormlands). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Stannis should have been given Storm's End to be Robert's strong right hand should any war break out.Renly when he came of age should have been given the Ruins of Summerhall (and funds to rebuild). That way he can be a diplomatic link between all three most Southerly Kingdoms (borders Reach, Dorne and the Stormlands). I really like this part. Of course it is all in hindsight though. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Funds to rebuild? And where would those have come from, with Robert borrowing a great deal to hold banquets and tourneys and probably with Littlefinger taking his share as well. The crown was 6 million gold dragons in debt when Eddard shows up in Kings Landing to become hand. Or are you suggesting that Robert should have borrowed a hundred thousand more dragons to pay for this (and no, he was not going to give up on the banquets and tourneys and start counting coppers....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Funds to rebuild? And where would those have come from, with Robert borrowing a great deal to hold banquets and tourneys and probably with Littlefinger taking his share as well. The crown was 6 million gold dragons in debt when Eddard shows up in Kings Landing. That's 15 years later. We are explicitly told that Aerys left the royal treasury overflowing with gold. So Robert had to first spend all that and then start borrowing. He should have have several noted Stormland houses swear themselves to King's Landing directly. Thus the power balance between Renly and Stannis is better. Hindsight. At that point in time, there was no need to even think about a power balance between Stannis and Renly - one was a battle commander, the other one - a child. I do like the OP idea, though. Imagine how the story might've been different if Joffrey was removed from his mother and send to learn how to rule under Courtnay Penrose. It would've definitely improved things. However, I don't think it was doable, for one single reason - Targaryens. Many people on this forum prefer to accept Robert's explanation that his claim to the throne was his warhammer, but it is pretty obvious that the reason Jon Arryn decided to have him as the face of the rebellion and future king was his Targaryen Grandmother. In a way, Jon needed him to be seen as continuing the Targaryen bloodline, even under another name. So, changing the Crown prince's seat from Dragonstone to Storm's End would've probably stirred some unneeded unrest. Also, to the people who claim that Dragonstone was weak and that's why it was given to the Crown Prince. GRRM read an excerpt from "The Princess and the Queen" a week or so back and it seems to indicate that Dragonstone was actually where the Targs kept the majority of their dragons. So in those days, Dragonstone was probably the most powerful seat in the Kingdoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 We don't know what sort of change Rhaegar planned. The Blackfyres felt that their claim was true. The rest did it underhandedly, not openly, except for Renly. You expressed disbelief that a son would plot against it's father/relatives against relatives, i just provided examples that family ties aren't ironclad. Rhaegar, at ome point, planned to have his father's power stripped or greatky reduced. I think that qualifies as a son being disloyal to his dad, even if for the right reasons. Robert could've kept all lands and titles for himself and his children or he could have confined his siblings to the traditional Barathheon holdings(Stannis for SE, Renly for Summerhall as mentioned above). He did neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 But the context of this discussion is post rebellion, surely, right? When Bobert had become King. Even for a pre-rebellion scenario, remember how LF remarks about how Loras' inclusion into KG rids Mace Tyrell the trouble of finding suitable holdings for him. Sons of such a great house generally go on to hold lands of there own, even if they stand bannermen tot heir father or elder brother. I'm not too sure about that. And even if they did, holding lands is a lot different then being given Storm's End. A third son, no matter how high isn't typically given power that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Also, to the people who claim that Dragonstone was weak and that's why it was given to the Crown Prince. GRRM read an excerpt from "The Princess and the Queen" a week or so back and it seems to indicate that Dragonstone was actually where the Targs kept the majority of their dragons. So in those days, Dragonstone was probably the most powerful seat in the Kingdoms. It's hard to say unless we know the exact nature of how the Targs controlled their dragons. I don't think it likely that the Prince could excersize complete control over all the dragons stored there, especially against other Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 One man in direct control of two regions is too much responsibility, especially for Robert. Besides, under Renly the Stormlands were still sworn to House Baratheon. 1. The Stormlands + Crownlands combined still probably wouldnt even equal the Reach in terms of population, or the North in terms of size 2. Loyalty to House Baratheon is different from loyalty to the King. Renly proved this when he rose with his bannermen to usurp (what he thought were) Robert's sons Robert doesn't even have to keep Storm's End. It can go to one of his brothers and keep quite a bit of prestige, but still cease to be the seat of the Stormlands, which could be ruled directly from King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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