Controversial Chapter?

[Annara Snow]

I guess we can all agree that while sex with Baelish might be not so bad as physical experience it would be a devastating, indeed awful, emotional burden in the long run considering what he did to her family and what he may intend to do to her. But Harry could be fun, we do not know anything about him but for beginner's experimentation he might be a good choice.

The problem and the probable reason for the phrase "creepy sexual stuff" (quote: Newstar) is summed up in the phrase "pseudo-consensual sex". The main problem with the hypothetical sex with Petyr Baelish is that he's put Sansa in the position where he has almost complete power over her, and where she can't reject him when he starts molesting her and asking her for kisses. The problem is the hypothetical sex with Harry is similar - it's not about whether he would be a "good choice", it's about the fact that he, like LF, wouldn't be a choice at all, since Baelish has decided and told Sansa that she has to charm Harry and marry him.

[The Giver]

I feel Sansa's sexual agency is important as she is an adolescent female on the cusp of womanhood. She has as have the vast majority of us modern day, real world ladies, been sent the message all her life that her value lies between her legs and in her face. That who and how many people get between her legs will determine her worth throughout her life. She as we all are, has been tought that her own desire is secondary to the men in her lifes, that her libido is shameful and that good girls don't really like sex, they don't like sex acts that deviate from the puritan accepted method of procreation sanctioned by God. If they do desire such things it makes them a slut, a slag a whore. All hate words used to bully and beat women into submitting to the role patriarchy has thrust upon them. Sansa showing agency and taking her own pleasure while remaining a nice, good person is essentially sticking two fingers up to that stereotype and giving women who love sex a voice, we are not shamefull dirty corrupted sluts.

I read a lot of porn, haha no surprise there I've been very open as someone who has a high sex drive. And while I'm surfing Literotica the same themes repeatedly crop up, women being called sluts for performing certain sex acts and taking enjoyment in sexual activity. The fact that this would it seems be such a peccadillo screams about the issue at hand, whether the derogatory language is aimed at arousing men, who want to read and imagine having sexual encounters with such a woman and degrading her in such a way, or are aimed at women who want to feel punished for their disgusting desires is unclear. All I know is that the amount of stories with this theme is astounding!! as a woman who does not want " the phrase talk dirty to me" to equate to call me a whore. I have a problem with this.

So to me the issue of Sansa the good girl being empowered to find sexual agency is an important one and one which is entirely separate to showing the non socially attractive characters having fulfilling sexual relations. Both are things I cheer for and feel are valuable to the story. I do not feel they are mutually exclusive.

Thank you for this post. You said it very well.

If we're going to change the norm, we need to start somewhere. Hopefully GRRM doesn't let us down.

[Woman of War]

The problem and the probable reason for the phrase "creepy sexual stuff" (quote: Newstar) is summed up in the phrase "pseudo-consensual sex". The main problem with the hypothetical sex with Petyr Baelish is that he's put Sansa in the position where he has almost complete power over her, and where she can't reject him when he starts molesting her and asking her for kisses. The problem is the hypothetical sex with Harry is similar - it's not about whether he would be a "good choice", it's about the fact that he, like LF, wouldn't be a choice at all, since Baelish has decided and told Sansa that she has to charm Harry and marry him.

I did not suggest she should marry Harry (marry Harry red herring :) ) and patiently wait for the sex to come. She can't marry him anyway as Sansa. She should rather choose to try him out before as introduction.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Thank you and to everyone who has been so complimentary about my posts here.

I would have replied sooner but Annara has said everything I would have said anyway. She's rather good like that.

Back on topic I do think the controversy will be something quite minor considering all the hype those Elio Quotes have had.

My idea that a sex chat between Randa and Sansa would fit, being minor in the sense that its not a major plot mover, and potentially controversial in that there are many in the fandom who have issue with both female & teen sexuality. I'm not suggesting lesbian sex and I was half joking about masturbating.

Who knows that it actually will be. But I really doubt anyone is getting raped or murdered or coerced into sex they don't want after all as many have said that would not be merely potentially controversial to some quarters.