A closer look at Bran's Coma Dream

[Mithras]

Good analysis. I dont remember well but was this the dream that Bran said "Summer" after awakening?

[Marwi]

Good analysis. I dont remember well but was this the dream that Bran said "Summer" after awakening?

Yes, his wolf jumped on him and licked his face. He felt the warmth coming from him and therefore named him Summer.

[mindchap]

Yes, his wolf jumped on him and licked his face. He felt the warmth coming from him and therefore named him Summer.

Just adding the quote:

And then there was movement beside the bed, and something landed lightly on his legs. He felt

nothing. A pair of yellow eyes looked into his own, shining like the sun. The window was open

and it was cold in the room, but the warmth that came off the wolf enfolded him like a hot bath.

His pup, Bran realized... or was it? He was so big now. He reached out to pet him, his hand

trembling like a leaf.

When his brother Robb burst into the room, breathless from his dash up the tower steps, the

direwolf was licking Bran’s face. Bran looked up calmly. “His name is Summer,” he said.

[Ghost's Shadow]

I think Bran would have noticed the difference between his brother 'sleeping in a bad' versus 'being dragged into an ice cell after he dies'.

And it's his memories of his siblings that he had to turn away from (which kept him warm, so it makes him go colder), which as we noticed in Dance he doesn't quite succeeds in.

[yolkboy]

As for the Heart of Winter I present to you a personal crackpot. I think it is the source of ice related magic in this world. Other than this another reference to this heart is given by warlocks of Qarth, and notice using this they prolonged (preserved - ice) their lives. That I believe is not just a co-incidence.

Dany AcoK:

A long stone table filled this room. Above it floated a human heart, swollen and blue with corruption, yet still alive. It beat, a deep ponderous throb of sound, and each pulse sent out a wash of indigo light. The figures around the table were no more than blue shadows. As Dany walked to the empty chair at the foot of the table, they did not stir, nor speak, nor turn to face her. There was no sound but the slow, deep beat of the rotting heart.

Hope it helps the analysis. :)

yes, that heart in the house of the undying is blue and it did cross my mind it could be related to this 'heart of winter'. I'm glad you brought that up Arya Kiddin', I like your angle on the warlocks. And the heart of winter being the source of ice/Others magic seems plausible, the 3EC seems to be showing Bran important things.

[Arya kiddin']

yes, that heart in the house of the undying is blue and it did cross my mind it could be related to this 'heart of winter'. I'm glad you brought that up Arya Kiddin', I like your angle on the warlocks. And the heart of winter being the source of ice/Others magic seems plausible, the 3EC seems to be showing Bran important things.

Thanks yolkboy. The ice and fire dichotomy just keeps popping up. If you do consider this crackpot to be true, we know that the Others are not the only ones who use ice magic. Warlocks - and thus - Euron Greyjoy comes to mind. :)

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Bran's Coma Dream

*snip

Great analysis yolkboy! As you know, initially I didn't completely agree with you on the entire interpretation, but you've got me 99.99% convinced ;)

I think we'd all agree there's a lot yet to be untangled about the farther flung parts of the vision, but I'm pretty sure you're heading in the right direction.

I'm really looking forward to more Jon analysis, and will hold off on commenting on that part until a later time.

Regarding the Sandor, Jaime, RS passage... I wonder if it's at all significant that the identifiers are all things that the character has cast off?

For RS we have the stone armor which you propose is a reference to his former identity as "The Mountain" and the armor he wore (stone fisted helm)-- both of these are things no longer associated with the creature Gregor has become. He has cast them off in favor of a new identity.

For SC we have the "terrible face" of a hound, which we assume to be references to his helm and his nom de guerre "The Hound", both of which he has abandoned by AFfC where we see him in a new identity (assuming he is the Gravedigger.)

For JL there is the reference to the golden armor (here's where I think it gets interesting...) Jaime carefully tells us that he wore his golden armor the day he slew Aerys and gained his nickname "Kingslayer", it would appear that he personally associates the two. If we apply the pattern of cast off identifiers to the vision of Jaime, I'd say here we have early foreshadowing that Jaime is going to cast off his "Kingslayer" identity. We know he dreams of becoming the perfect white knight of the Kingsguard. While I think that path is closed to him, I think we may yet see his redemption arc fulfilled. This vision seems to link that journey with the Stark sisters and the Clegane brothers, a direction I could definitely see the narrative taking.

[Arya kiddin']

snip

While the pattern sure fits Lady Gwyn, but I'm skeptical only because I don't see how that contributes to anyhing with Sansa and Arya. There is one thing actually that I don't understand in this vision, and I would be grateful if anybody can explain it to me. How are we associating these three men to Arya and Sansa? Notice the order in which these "shadows" are so named. The Hound has already had plenty interaction with both sisters and has impacted their lives greatly. Can we expect that these two others will do so as well, and maybe in this order? I don't quite see how Arya and Sansa could in future have an interaction with Robert Strong or Jaime. Any thoughts, anyone?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

While the pattern sure fits Lady Gwyn, but I'm skeptical only because I don't see how that contributes to anyhing with Sansa and Arya. There is one thing actually that I don't understand in this vision, and I would be grateful if anybody can explain it to me. How are we associating these three men to Arya and Sansa? Notice the order in which these "shadows" are so named. The Hound has already had plenty interaction with both sisters and has impacted their lives greatly. Can we expect that these two others will do so as well, and maybe in this order? I don't quite see how Arya and Sansa could in future have an interaction with Robert Strong or Jaime. Any thoughts, anyone?

Expanding on what I was getting at would offer a possible explanation.

As noted, we've seen important interactions between Arya and Sansa and Sandor. Jaime is also closely associated with the sisters, both because he is the prisoner Cat wants to exchange for her girls (and ultimately sends off with Brienne to that end) and he is the founder of Brienne's quest to find Sansa. Since last we knew Jaime was with Brienne in the Riverlands, I strongly suspect he will be joining her in some way and will be instrumental in finding one or both girls and reuniting them (he also knows Arya Bolton is fake.)

It seems like the natural outcome of his redemption arc, since he thinks so much about the vow he made to Catelyn Tully, as Brienne thinks constantly of the vow she made to him (hence the name of the Ice-derived sword-- Oathkeeper)

Robert Strong may be turned loose by Cersei on a 'seek and destroy' mission if she gets wind that Sansa is in hiding somewhere in the Vale or the Riverlands (I'd actually count on her getting the location wrong) Obviously Sandor is due a face-off with his erstwhile brother. But don't forget Jaime has a failed past confrontation with Gregor as well-- seventeen years ago he failed to save Elia and Aegon from his father's hired beast. Think of the redemption if he can manage to save Catelyn's daughter from the terrible Robert Strong! As much as him achieving that single-handedly (ahem...) would be awesome, I actually see it happening as team effort, thus the connection between him and Sandor and their two redemptive arcs.

[Lady Arya's Song]

Parallel between Catelyn and Jon?

Beside the entrance, the king’s armor stood sentry; a suit of forest-green plate, its fittings chased with gold, the helm crowned by a great rack of golden antlers. The steel was polished to such a high sheen that she could see her reflection in the breastplate, gazing back at her as if from the bottom of a deep green pond. The face of a drowned woman, Catelyn thought. Foreshadowing of her death and rebirth to something more than dead but less than the human being she once was.

Jon

Whittlestick yanked the door wide enough for Jon to slip through.... Jon Snow could see his own reflection dimly inside the icy walls.”

Interesting that this is written when Jon is visiting his chief captive Karstark. Also notice that Martin writes Rusted hinges screamed like damned souls when Wick Whittlestick yanked the door wide enough for Jon to slip through...

Jon Snow is my favorite character so I am hoping Martin does not make him some damned soul or something akin to the ice version of UnCat.

[Arya kiddin']

snip

I see it now. Many thanks Lady Gwyn. :)

[Dorian Martell]

This is a great post. I am for most of it, but I think the two shadows are Gregor and Oberyn. Gregors house is three dogs. Oberyn's house is the sun and a spear and he wears bronze armor. I think the "Dark as ash, with the face of a hound" and "Armored Like the sun, Golden and beautiful" are too obviously Jamie and the hound and thus red herrings. After the fight between the gregor and oberyn, both "Die" and then Robert strong is born of their encounter. Anyways, that's my theory

[yolkboy]

Parallel between Catelyn and Jon?

Beside the entrance, the king’s armor stood sentry; a suit of forest-green plate, its fittings chased with gold, the helm crowned by a great rack of golden antlers. The steel was polished to such a high sheen that she could see her reflection in the breastplate, gazing back at her as if from the bottom of a deep green pond. The face of a drowned woman, Catelyn thought. Foreshadowing of her death and rebirth to something more than dead but less than the human being she once was.

Jon

Whittlestick yanked the door wide enough for Jon to slip through.... Jon Snow could see his own reflection dimly inside the icy walls.”

Interesting that this is written when Jon is visiting his chief captive Karstark. Also notice that Martin writes Rusted hinges screamed like damned souls when Wick Whittlestick yanked the door wide enough for Jon to slip through...

Jon Snow is my favorite character so I am hoping Martin does not make him some damned soul or something akin to the ice version of UnCat.

Great work as ever, Lady Arya's song. That does seem to be 'reflection' foreshadowing, and fits in with the possibility i've offered for Jon Snow. Regarding Jon, I'm doing a thread very soon exploring his fate and what changes he might face. I agree an Uncat type change would be terrible all round.

Great analysis yolkboy! As you know, initially I didn't completely agree with you on the entire interpretation, but you've got me 99.99% convinced ;)

I think we'd all agree there's a lot yet to be untangled about the farther flung parts of the vision, but I'm pretty sure you're heading in the right direction.

I'm really looking forward to more Jon analysis, and will hold off on commenting on that part until a later time.

Regarding the Sandor, Jaime, RS passage... I wonder if it's at all significant that the identifiers are all things that the character has cast off?

snip

Good thinking about the common theme of identities in armour here, Lady Gwyn. There is a likening with identities and 'armour', going back to what Tyrion said to Jon...

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”

You're angle on Jaime's 'Kingslayer' tag reminded me of that.

[Droga_TargaryenSnow]

Beyond is the 'heart of winter', which could be a place or a literal heart, perhaps relating to the Others.

I'm on ACoK and noticed that there was a heart in The House of the Undying Ones. I was wondering if this might be important later on. I doubted it because of what happened to it but the similarities between of the undying ones and the others (as undead) makes me wonder.

ETA: I just read some of the other post and I'm feeling really silly. :blushing:

[yolkboy]

ETA: I just read some of the other post and I'm feeling really silly. :blushing:

You have no reason to feel silly Droga!

[Muggle]

Such a great thread, I decided to bump it !!

[Dragon Roast]

Such a great thread, I decided to bump it !!

Thanks. I missed it the first time around. It is a great thread. Good work yolkboy! There is a lot to consider here.

The dead playing an active role in the story is one of the interesting sub-themes. Bran can reach back and hear the dead through the trees. He may even learn how to talk with them. Bran's education is with the dead. BR should be dead, but isn't quite dead yet. Then there is CH and those CotF sitting on their own root thrones.

Arya seems to be able to hear the dead as well. The dead seem to talk to Jamie in his dreams. And Beric Dondarrion and unCat prove that death, like guest rights, just don't mean as much as they used to. And then there's Jon becoming dead.

In the GOT prologue there was an exchange that seems to have foreshadowed all of this:

“Do the dead frighten you?” Ser Waymar Royce asked with just the hint of a smile.

Gared did not rise to the bait. He was an old man, past fifty, and he had seen the lordlings come and go. “Dead is dead,” he said. “We have no business with the dead.”

“Are they dead?” Royce asked softly. “What proof have we?”

“Will saw them,” Gared said. “If he says they are dead, that’s proof enough for me.”

Will had known they would drag him into the quarrel sooner or later. He wished it had been later rather than sooner. “My mother told me that dead men sing no songs,” he put in.

“My wet nurse said the same thing, Will,” Royce replied. “Never believe anything you hear at a woman’s tit. There are things to be learned even from the dead.” His voice echoed, too loud in the twilit forest.

Perhaps the song of Ice and Fire will turn out to be a song sung by a dead man.

[Brynden Bloodraven Rivers]

Nice thread, and I agree that the giant is Ser Robert Strong.

Thanks. I missed it the first time around. It is a great thread. Good work yolkboy! There is a lot to consider here.

The dead playing an active role in the story is one of the interesting sub-themes. Bran can reach back and hear the dead through the trees. He may even learn how to talk with them. Bran's education is with the dead. BR should be dead, but isn't quite dead yet. Then there is CH and those CotF sitting on their own root thrones.

Arya seems to be able to hear the dead as well. The dead seem to talk to Jamie in his dreams. And Beric Dondarrion and unCat prove that death, like guest rights, just don't mean as much as they used to. And then there's Jon becoming dead.

In the GOT prologue there was an exchange that seems to have foreshadowed all of this:

Perhaps the song of Ice and Fire will turn out to be a song sung by a dead man.

Yeah, good catch. I've seen here that Aemon lived long only because he was in the wall, and ice preserves. You said that BR should be dead, by this logic Aemon too, and Jon did learn a lot of things from him.

[Mia B.]

This is such a great post!

"Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart"

One thing that caught my eye though, could this be any reference or foreshadowing of her being "no one" and having to hide her true identity in the future?

[Lord Voldemort's Toes]

While the pattern sure fits Lady Gwyn, but I'm skeptical only because I don't see how that contributes to anyhing with Sansa and Arya. There is one thing actually that I don't understand in this vision, and I would be grateful if anybody can explain it to me. How are we associating these three men to Arya and Sansa? Notice the order in which these "shadows" are so named. The Hound has already had plenty interaction with both sisters and has impacted their lives greatly. Can we expect that these two others will do so as well, and maybe in this order? I don't quite see how Arya and Sansa could in future have an interaction with Robert Strong or Jaime. Any thoughts, anyone?

Could this Bran dream maybe be related to the Ghost of High Heart "maid slaying a giant" thing? Both feature giants that need to be killed, and both involve Sansa.