Ramsey and theon's secret

[Aakash11bajaj]

So we know that both Ramsey and theon are aware that both bran and rickon are alive. So I was wondering the implications. They have been claiming so far that theon killed the stark boys. And we can assume the Papa (roose) bolton doesnt know about the stark boys being alive.

What would happen if papa bolton finds out.

How long can the boltons fool other lords of the north. If they were to know that bran and rockon are alive, wont (shouldn't) their loyalties change ?

Also why hasnt Ramsey told roose.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm pretty sure that Bran and Rickon being alive is the worst-kept secret in the North, and that most of the major players not named Jon and Stannis know it. And that includes Roose as well. I don't have the book in front of me but I'm pretty sure in ADWD there's some discussion about what would happen if a Stark boy turned up and Ramsay just says he'd kill them again.

[Sordelor]

Most lords suppprt who they fear the most, who is the most powerful, not 2 little children.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Most lords suppprt who they fear the most, who is the most powerful, not 2 little children.

Except that few lords in the North, if any, are actually supporting the Boltons.

[Mladen]

Most lords suppprt who they fear the most, who is the most powerful, not 2 little children.

Apparently not in the North...

I'm pretty sure that Bran and Rickon being alive is the worst-kept secret in the North, and that most of the major players not named Jon and Stannis know it. And that includes Roose as well. I don't have the book in front of me but I'm pretty sure in ADWD there's some discussion about what would happen if a Stark boy turned up and Ramsay just says he'd kill them again.

So, true (btw, had a good laugh, thanks for making this day less crappy)... I agree, with so many people knowing kids are alive, the entire talk about that secret is redundant.

[King of Winters]

So, true (btw, had a good laugh, thanks for making this day less crappy)... I agree, with so many people knowing kids are alive, the entire talk about that secret is redundant.

It's kind of like the incest secret between Jaime and Cersei during the main bit of the Wot5K, everyone knows about it, but don't speak of it.

[Minstral]

Most lords suppprt who they fear the most, who is the most powerful, not 2 little children.

That is not active support, but submission through threat of force.

But yes, many lords in the North know about the two boys still being alive. They just have solid proof as the where Rickon is and not Bran. If they could they would try to locate him, but Rickon is something of a "more secure" option, as he is far more likely to carry on House Stark.

[SanderOfTheFaith]

Their loyalty has never shifted. Look at Wyman Manderly and the GNC

[Ramsay Gimp]

Sorry, but what's the evidence that most lords beside Manderly know the truth?

[SerJamie]

Sorry, but what's the evidence that most lords beside Manderly know the truth?

There's the lords that are part of the Northern Conspiracy (Mormont, Glover etc) who will probably know from Manderly, but the only others who definitely know are Roose and Ramsay. Most of Westeros believe them dead and I assume most of the Northerners do too.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Sorry, but what's the evidence that most lords beside Manderly know the truth?

The mountain clans know that Bran is alive because they see him when his group passes through. If Bran's alive, it follows that Rickon's alive. Wyman Manderly knows that Rickon is alive, and if Rickon is alive, Bran's probably also alive even if they don't know where he is. Robett Glover is with Manderly, and I'd be shocked if there wasn't some communication between the Neck and White Harbor, especially given that Robett's brother is there with Maege Mormont. If Maege Mormont knows, she can tell Alysane, or Alysane could learn the truth from any of the clansmen whom she's now with. Luwin suggested that the boys could go to Last Hearth. If Manderly knows where Rickon is, it's not out of the question that he'd get in touch with the Umbers to see if Bran ended up at Last Hearth, even though he obviously didn't. So there you have the Manderlys, Mormonts, Reeds, Glovers, Umbers and mountain clans who all know at least one boy is alive and that they're probably both alive. The channels of communication are pretty easy to see if you look at them.

[jarl the climber]

Part of the reason that everyone knows is that the Boltons had people asking up and down the Kingsroad for information and soffering silver and gold for it. Its a fairly good sign to anyone that they might be living. While Jon does not disbeleive his brothers death, he's much more biased against the Lannisters. I even recall him thinking that he did not think that Theon could have killed him. There is good reason to beleive that he is aware they are both alive on a subconscious level. Mel has seen Bran in her fires but as far as we knew she was unable to deduce his true identity.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Part of the reason that everyone knows is that the Boltons had people asking up and down the Kingsroad for information and soffering silver and gold for it. Its a fairly good sign to anyone that they might be living. While Jon does not disbeleive his brothers death, he's much more biased against the Lannisters. I even recall him thinking that he did not think that Theon could have killed him. There is good reason to beleive that he is aware they are both alive on a subconscious level. Mel has seen Bran in her fires but as far as we knew she was unable to deduce his true identity.

Also a good point. Which in hindsight was a pretty stupid move on Ramsay's part. "These kids really are dead, but if you see them, let me know, OK?" :dunce: