Robb and the Red Wedding

[Das_Boof]

I didn't actually ever see Robb as a main character. Now I wasn't all cheery and excited when he died I was more or less indifferent. I was more fixated on Jaime and Arya's POVs. So when the episode aired and everyone freaked out, I was thinking, he betrayed his promise to the Freys duh something bad is gonna happen. So I'm just curious, other than his honor, what made the Red Wedding so tragic? Was it the unexpectedness? The brutality? I'm just curious.

[Jevans]

Because he was going home.

[LordStoneheart]

Well personally I did like Robb and considered him a main character so I was just pissed. Also, I feel the whole thing was an immature overreaction of the Freys. Plus, my third favorite character was Catelyn.

[Better_off_Ned]

I didn't actually ever see Robb as a main character. Now I wasn't all cheery and excited when he died I was more or less indifferent. I was more fixated on Jaime and Arya's POVs. So when the episode aired and everyone freaked out, I was thinking, he betrayed his promise to the Freys duh something bad is gonna happen. So I'm just curious, other than his honor, what made the Red Wedding so tragic? Was it the unexpectedness? The brutality? I'm just curious.

He was Ned Stark's heir, and a bad ass. And he was fighting the good fight.

[Mikaele]

I thought of him as a main character and I liked him.

Also he was the greatest hope for a Stark victory and the RW signified the end of Stark power. At the time of the RW everyone believes Bran and Rickon dead, Sansa is a prisoner of the Lannisters, Arya was so close to being reunited but not has nowhere to go and shes also believed dead.

Things were beginning to look up, Robb was going to get some reinforcements and begin taking back the North, but then it was all brutally ended right before our eyes.

And everything that happened to Robb's personal guard and army.

What they did to Robb and Grey Winds's body is inexusable and the worst part of it all.

[kiasyd]

I didn't actually ever see Robb as a main character. Now I wasn't all cheery and excited when he died I was more or less indifferent. I was more fixated on Jaime and Arya's POVs. So when the episode aired and everyone freaked out, I was thinking, he betrayed his promise to the Freys duh something bad is gonna happen. So I'm just curious, other than his honor, what made the Red Wedding so tragic? Was it the unexpectedness? The brutality? I'm just curious.

Major douchebaggery of the Freys? Anyway, if you're being specific about the TV series reaction, it's the surprise of the "supposed" major plot point of the king in the north completely crumbling down in a few bloody seconds.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Because aside from Ser Arthur Dayne he was the most BAD ASS MUTHA FUCKA in the series.

R.I.P. Robb

and may the Freys burn in the seven hells

[complexphoenix]

Robb may be a second-tier character in the books, but in the show he's very much a main character. And although his death has a clear plot logic to it, it is also shockingly brutal, sickeningly cruel and hideously dishonorable. I mean come on, murdered as a guest at a wedding? What's really horrible about the Red Wedding is that it isn't just an attack on a group on people by another group, it tears the very social fabric of Westeros by violating key institutions - the institution of guest right, the institution of marriage, the institutions of kingship and fealty. It's not mere war, it's sacrilege. And it is unforgivable.

[Dead Wolf]

I saw Robb as a young red haired Ned. Definitely one of the main characters and my personal favorite. The RW was tragic for me mainly because of Robb's death, but also because of Cat, Dacey, Wendel, and Smalljon's deaths.

[Dead Wolf]

Because aside from Ser Arthur Dayne he was the most BAD ASS MUTHA FUCKA in the series.

R.I.P. Robb

and may the Freys burn in the seven hells

This too

[The Wolves]

It was the brutality, the cruelty, the sneakiness, and the innocent people who died because of a weasel faced man felt slighted

I would kinda be okay with the 3,500 men dying if they had a fair chance, but they were falsely promised a compromise and than slaughtered by cowards and monsters.

Robb's punishment did not fit his crime and they mutilated his body and his mothers all because of what?

[Das_Boof]

It was the brutality, the cruelty, the sneakiness, and the innocent people who died because of a weasel faced man felt slighted

I would kinda be okay with the 3,500 men dying if they had a fair chance, but they were falsely promised a compromise and than slaughtered by cowards and monsters.

Robb's punishment did not fit his crime and they mutilated his body and his mothers all because of what?

Yeah the mutilation of his corpse was pretty effed up

[Addam of Hull]

Red Wedding apologists imminent.

But yeah, the Red Wedding is one of those horrific events that, even if I understand why the key players decided to make the moves that they did, I can never really bring myself to accept that as justification.

[nekrohsis]

The problem with the argument that Tywin was right to disregard guest right to quickly end the war is that guest right is a social norm. Now, no guest can trust his host. No man can feel safe while traveling. Guest right provides a form of safety to lords who must parley with enemies. That safety is now shattered. By breaking this norm, the Lannisters and Freys have undermined a tradition that has promoted peace and safe travel for generations.

[complexphoenix]

The problem with the argument that Tywin was right to disregard guest right to quickly end the war is that guest right is a social norm. Now, no guest can trust his host. No man can feel safe while traveling. Guest right provides a form of safety to lords who must parley with enemies. That safety is now shattered. By breaking this norm, the Lannisters and Freys have undermined a tradition that has promoted peace and safe travel for generations.

This.

Whenever you violate institutions like this, your short-term gain comes at long-term cost to everyone else. This is why the entirety of Westeros, even people who suffered no direct losses at the RW, now consider House Frey accursed and the lowest of the low and hate their guts.

[Raven in Winter]

For me, he was going to be the one that was going to avenge the Ned, I was so sure, and then the RW happened and it was like a sucker punch to the gut. Then, to add insult to injury, they (allegedly) mutilated his corpse! Just awful.

[BitsOfBrains]

In the books the red wedding was so tragic because so many cool characters died. Dacey Mormont, The Small Jon, a Manderly, and on and on.

As for the diff between the TVRW and the RW in the book, I think there are a few reasons people were so unhinged by the TV RW.

TV Robb was more of a central character and extremely well acted. TV Cat was MUCH more likable than book Cat. Where book Cat is a complete bitch to Jon, TV Cat had a scene where she talked about staying up all night praying by Jons bed when Jon was sick and on deaths door. TV Cat killed old Lord Walders wife, not a harmless degraded middle aged retarded man that shits himself.

Plus the TV red wedding was probably the most brutal 5 minutes of TV I have ever seen. Ever. No exaggeration.

I mean they shank a lovely teenage girl IN HER FETUS then leave her to suffer for a little while.

Then its just slashing throats and crossbows and blood and guts all around.

Even on a show where people fight in battles and get hacked up, people aren't ready for that kind of savagery.

[IRON BANK]

I didn't actually ever see Robb as a main character. Now I wasn't all cheery and excited when he died I was more or less indifferent. I was more fixated on Jaime and Arya's POVs. So when the episode aired and everyone freaked out, I was thinking, he betrayed his promise to the Freys duh something bad is gonna happen. So I'm just curious, other than his honor, what made the Red Wedding so tragic? Was it the unexpectedness? The brutality? I'm just curious.

You came up with alot of things I did from reexamining. Rob was never a main character. More like the average status qou fantasy series hero, that always seems to win. You did expect something for the broken promise, but Robs death was brutal. Almost destroyed any chance of a northern independence run.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

In the books the red wedding was so tragic because so many cool characters died. Dacey Mormont, The Small Jon, a Manderly, and on and on.

As for the diff between the TVRW and the RW in the book, I think there are a few reasons people were so unhinged by the TV RW.

TV Robb was more of a central character and extremely well acted. TV Cat was MUCH more likable than book Cat. Where book Cat is a complete bitch to Jon, TV Cat had a scene where she talked about staying up all night praying by Jons bed when Jon was sick and on deaths door. TV Cat killed old Lord Walders wife, not a harmless degraded middle aged retarded man that shits himself.

Plus the TV red wedding was probably the most brutal 5 minutes of TV I have ever seen. Ever. No exaggeration.

I mean they shank a lovely teenage girl IN HER FETUS then leave her to suffer for a little while.

Then its just slashing throats and crossbows and blood and guts all around.

Even on a show where people fight in battles and get hacked up, people aren't ready for that kind of savagery.

this, 100x this.People never give Richard Madden enough credit. IMO he is in the Top 5 best actors on the show. Probably because almost every scene he is involved in has Michelle in it.

1. Sean Bean

2. Nickolaj Causter- Waldau

3. Michelle Fairley

4. Charles Dance

5. RICHARD MADDEN

6. Peter Dinklage

7. Lena Headey

8. Alfie Allen

9. Liam Cunningham

10. Kit Harrington

[BitsOfBrains]

NM