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Tyrion1991

Jon and Val an item in WoW?

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Hes not dead BTW.



Moving on. I think this probably will happen because I think GRRM wants to put Jon center stage in the North in readiness for the last battle with the Others. This will include leading the wildlings along with the North and the red worshippers with Melisandre. Val certainly seems to be interested in him and once free or pushed out of his vows he will probably be more welcoming of such companionship. This she would be a useful way of further proving that he is one of them and they would respect him more for it.


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Ah, Val! :drool: Who wouldn't fall for her?


I think it is inevitable that Jon and Val are going to be close. Val respected Jon enough to retrieve Styr's son and the Thenns and her willpower alone is enough to offset Mel's influence. She seems to know things that help Jon (northern travelling, wildling lore regarding the Others and greyscale, etc.). After Ghost disembowels Bowen Marsh and some other NW traitors, then as Jon wargs into Ghost as his body heals, Jon may need Val to be his eyes and ears (and revenge tool). She is already a proven liaison between the wildlings and the northern folk. Heck, she may even enjoy cuddling with Ghost as well as Jon, which would be frickin' warg-tastic!


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Ah, Val! :drool: Who wouldn't fall for her?

I think it is inevitable that Jon and Val are going to be close. Val respected Jon enough to retrieve Styr's son and the Thenns and her willpower alone is enough to offset Mel's influence. She seems to know things that help Jon (northern travelling, wildling lore regarding the Others and greyscale, etc.). After Ghost disembowels Bowen Marsh and some other NW traitors, then as Jon wargs into Ghost as his body heals, Jon may need Val to be his eyes and ears (and revenge tool). She is already a proven liaison between the wildlings and the northern folk. Heck, she may even enjoy cuddling with Ghost as well as Jon, which would be frickin' warg-tastic!

this!

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Cant see Jon betraying his vows again. We have also seen some overtones of Jon and Mel.

Jon is "dead" and thus his watch is over. He has no vows to break 😜

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Val won't stand a chance after Satin spends months nursing Jon back to health. The vow says that "I shall take no wife", but it says nothing about not taking another man. :pimp:



Knowing Mel, she'll probably try to burn "Princess" Val and Gilly's baby at the stake to try and revive Jon.


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I'm a little mixed on whether Martin will go this route or not. I do think that in TWOW, we will see some kind of break between Jon and the Watch that's lasting. Whether that's a technical breaking of his vows, a personal choice to discard his identity as Lord Commander Snow, or the destruction of the Watch itself, I'm still mixed on. Jon and Val are a tad more difficult to suss out. I think they make quite a pair, but I'm not really convinced that hooking up with Val is something that's in the cards for Jon. He thinks she's beautiful and would make a good wife, but neither of them seem to hold much passion for the other. If Jon hasn't thrown himself in a fit of passion at her yet, it's difficult to see him doing it in the future unless the match manages to give him some advantage he needs. Considering all of the Wildling chieftains have already sworn personal allegiance to him, I don't really see anything she can give him.


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She is a good start in the right direction regarding reconsiling the north and the wildlings. If the king is seen to take a wildling for his bride. It's a stratigic political move. Plus she as ready proven she can sit a the big boy table and teat with other diplomats. Plus she will be a star in jon's court. She's smart , beautiful,and she's fearless. A worthy queen. She reminds me a lot of what i have read about Rheanys Targ. That she was a warrior, a flirt and tease and lastly a soroceress. The weirwood face pin that she wore on her cloak kinda like the full weirwood face mask that warrior witch wore maybe that's why she wasn't afraid of the forest and how she stayed alive. Anyway there is a good chance that they end up together. I want to draw your attention to the scene when they are beyond the way are you trying to steal my wolf, when he releases her into the wild their breath mingled in the cold winter air. That's the same imagery that was painted when Alys and Thenn married.


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I’ve heard this theory ad nauseam. Jon’s death/revival will release him from his vows. We will have to see if it actually holds.

Well, it's not a theorie, it's an opinion, in my opinion he should honor his vows till he is really dead, like dead dead, as in not coming back, never. Other people on the board feel very different, and so I'm thinking this will also be the case in the books.

There will be three camps:

1 Those who believe what the reader will know as the truth- Jon's ressurection or whatever- and consider him freed from his vows.

2 Those who also believe the above and consider Jon still bound to his vows.

3 Those who don't believe a thing about the weird tale. Tey'll just assume Jon was almost dead but never stoped living, and consider him still bound to his vows.

I think the third group will be the biggest by far. If someone came to me with this kind of story 'yeah I swore this vow, but whatever, I died and was brought back to live so I'm not longer bound to hold it', I would be like, yeah sure, you oathbreaking bastard.

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Other people on the board feel very different, and so I'm thinking this will also be the case in the books.

Well....let's see.

1) It's chaotic wartime,

2) There are massive traitorous and mutinous actions ongoing within the NW and elsewhere,

3) There is an opportunity for a progressive alliance between the north and the wildlings that could help Westeros and the battle with the WWs,

4) Either supernatural activity or a warged direwolf will save Jon from certain death,

5) If it is allowed in (after Ygritte), love changes everything,

6) If he survives the mutiny, Jon will come to learn that he is royalty and he embodies prophesy.

Hmmmm......screw his vows; he needs to survive.

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Well, it's not a theorie, it's an opinion, in my opinion he should honor his vows till he is really dead, like dead dead, as in not coming back, never. Other people on the board feel very different, and so I'm thinking this will also be the case in the books.

There will be three camps:

1 Those who believe what the reader will know as the truth- Jon's ressurection or whatever- and consider him freed from his vows.

2 Those who also believe the above and consider Jon still bound to his vows.

3 Those who don't believe a thing about the weird tale. Tey'll just assume Jon was almost dead but never stoped living, and consider him still bound to his vows.

I think the third group will be the biggest by far. If someone came to me with this kind of story 'yeah I swore this vow, but whatever, I died and was brought back to live so I'm not longer bound to hold it', I would be like, yeah sure, you oathbreaking bastard.

Lets not get testy here. A theory can be defined as an idea or a set of ideas intended to explain facts or events. One such event is Jon’s expected survival from a horrific, multiple stabbings. The idea (theory) is that he will do so by supernatural means. For example, Jon will warg into his wolf to preserve his spirit, while giving Melisandre the time she needs to heal his body.

Another proposed event is that Jon will be freed of vows that one technically should not be freed from unless dead and buried. The idea to explain this event is that Jon’s death/revival by supernatural means, frees him from his vows.

I certainly see where you are coming from regarding opinions, but I think theory works just june here.

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Well, it's not a theorie, it's an opinion, in my opinion he should honor his vows till he is really dead, like dead dead, as in not coming back, never. Other people on the board feel very different, and so I'm thinking this will also be the case in the books.

There will be three camps:

1 Those who believe what the reader will know as the truth- Jon's ressurection or whatever- and consider him freed from his vows.

2 Those who also believe the above and consider Jon still bound to his vows.

3 Those who don't believe a thing about the weird tale. Tey'll just assume Jon was almost dead but never stoped living, and consider him still bound to his vows.

I think the third group will be the biggest by far. If someone came to me with this kind of story 'yeah I swore this vow, but whatever, I died and was brought back to live so I'm not longer bound to hold it', I would be like, yeah sure, you oathbreaking bastard.

That's funny but even if you don't look at him being released from his vows by way of death then what about Royal pardon. Robb wanted Jon released from his vows and as LC of the NW he can release himself from his vows. It's almost comical. He gets the will and it says he's King

"This is the will of King Robb Stark the first of his name ruler of the First Men and the Riverlands King in the North"

"King Robb has released me from my vows of the Nights Watch I will have to talk this over with the LC but I don't think that he will mind much"

"LC Jon Snow, Jon Snow was wondering if he could be released from his vow to the watch"

"Very interesting Jon Snow I will have to take this under advisement."

"Thank you LC I will tell Jon that you have heard his case and are thinking on the matter."

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That's funny but even if you don't look at him being released from his vows by way of death then what about Royal pardon. Robb wanted Jon released from his vows and as LC of the NW he can release himself from his vows. It's almost comical. He gets the will and it says he's King

This is the conflict i have been thinking will test Jon Snow... first he was offered to be legitimized as Lord Jon Stark of Winterfell by Stannis and refused because of his vows, but if Robb's will as made public will he be able to refuse the title of "King of the North"?

I think Jon is extremely stubborn and honorable like Ned and will take a pass on Robb's will... Instead he will honor his vows...

But then what if R+L=J is true and he finds out he is in line to sit the Iron Throne? Everything he has ever known about himself will have been a lie, but I think Jon will honor his vows til the end...

...which leads back to the OP, no, Jon and Val will not become an item in WoW or aDoS

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But then what if R+L=J is true and he finds out he is in line to sit the Iron Throne? Everything he has ever known about himself will have been a lie, but I think Jon will honor his vows til the end...



...which leads back to the OP, no, Jon and Val will not become an item in WoW or aDoS




Val is a great first step intergrating the Wildling in the the north beyond settling them into the north. If Jon excepts the offer of King of the North and think that he must. Bran is broken and can't even have children. Then there is Rickon who would make a better lord of Riverrun who can act as a southern guard to the north. So that's two legitamate heir remove with no blood shed and gathering the support of the Trident lords in one fell swoop. The Trident Lords will never bend the knee to a half breed son of the tratious Frey. So Rickon is the best option and with Edmure in Rosby his wife has a claim to that castle so that's an easy fix.Plus Rosby is part of the crownlands now the Trident lords don't even have to deal with Edmure or his heir. Then there is Ayra at the Twins as a final safe guard in the south. To the East you have Sansa who isn't going to ever make it back north but does have Arryan and stark blood so she can rule the Vale and Mya Stone can rule the mountain and it's clans.

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I find it funny that Jon will be able to a) warg into ghost as a second skin/life b] the NW now burns bodies that are dead c) there is a Fire Priestess at the wall



I think that should they burn Jons 'dead' body, there will be no doubt whether his watch is over or 'technically' over....I think if they burn his body no one can still hold Jon as bound to his vows...the NW already rejected him. though not all of them, enough of them.



I think that the its not coincidence that the NW/wildlings now burn all dead bodies, and there is a Fire Priestess at the wall (whos powers the reader knows have been growing substantially) I think there will be something with Jons body 'burning' + Ghost + Mel creating life anew from fire.



I dont see a reason that Jon and Val can't be the next Lord and Lady of Winterfell....if that is where Jon ends up.


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I would not forgive Jon if he'll take death as an excuse to abandon his vows. I think Val is a test of sorts to Jon, but nothing else.

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I would not forgive Jon if he'll take death as an excuse to abandon his vows. I think Val is a test of sorts to Jon, but nothing else.

By the end of the battle with the Others, there may be no Wall to defend. Also keep in mind that Jon went to the Wall under false pretenses. He felt a sense of never belonging due to Cat and the fact he was a bastard. He has been kept ignorant of his true heritage. He never would have chosen the Watch otherwise.

Damn Ned for never trusting him enough to tell him.

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