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What could you buy with 40,000 gold dragons?

Prefiera de Gryfalco

By Prefiera de Gryfalco,
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Prefiera de Gryfalco Squire

Prefiera de Gryfalco

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So I was thinking about this the other day and realized that Sandor Clegane's winnings at the Hand's tourney were HUGE! Considering that most smallfolk would never get to see a single dragon, that amount of money is incredible to a second son of a minor (but becoming more prominent) retainer lord. Like a million dollars to a person in a third world country. It seems he purchased his horse Stranger afterwards, but is there any possible way he could have spent that much money on wine and whores afterwards? Does he have some money saved away that was not taken by the Brotherhood?

What would 40K in gold dragons buy somebody? Enough land to have your own holdings, I suppose, if someone was willing to sell.

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Mad Monkey Council Member

Mad Monkey

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Sandor secretly had a dream of going back to school and finishing his degree. When he was beaten and robbed by the bandits, they took the money that he would have used for his tuition payment, which lead to his re-descent into delinquency and petty crime. And so the cycle of abuse continues.


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Ser Greg of House House Council Member

Ser Greg of House House

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Yeah, Martin screwed up the numbers there. It is way too much and Sandor wouldn't even be able to carry it. It's been discussed before.



Anyway, you seem to have a very poor understanding of how third world countries work. Millionaires abound here (I'm from Brazil). Not that it's something to be proud of... Also a million dollars wouldn't make you exceptionally rich or anything, just comfortable if you manage to invest it wisely.



From what people have deduced, Sandor's bounty would be way more than a million dollars, be it in the US or in China.


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Prefiera de Gryfalco Squire

Prefiera de Gryfalco

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Yeah, Martin screwed up the numbers there. It is way too much and Sandor wouldn't even be able to carry it. It's been discussed before.

Anyway, you seem to have a very poor understanding of how third world countries work. Millionaires abound here (I'm from Brazil). Not that it's something to be proud of... Also a million dollars wouldn't make you exceptionally rich or anything, just comfortable if you manage to invest it wisely.

From what people have deduced, Sandor's bounty would be way more than a million dollars, be it in the US or in China.

I am not thinking well off expats or investors in Brazil, I am thinking Somalia. To someone in a third world country making the equivalent of $200 a year, a million dollars would be unfathonably wealthy. Like a billionaire to the average American or European. I am not saying Sandor would be exceptionally rich compared to a Lannister or a Tyrell, but to the smallfolks, he'd be insanely rich.

I don't think it'd be possible to spend nearly all of that money in a year or less between the tourney and when he bails at Blackwater. A real nice horse like the one he's got would cost what, 100 dragons? Maybe 500? He keeps his fairly plain armor and the same hound's head helm, so no upgrade there. I am guessing the Kingsguard gets their own decent quarters. That much money on whores and wine? Nah...

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Vaxis Hedge Knight

Vaxis

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Anguy won 10,000 dragons from the archery competition at the tourney, and according to him, he spent almost all of it on wine and women. Of course, he's probably lying and it was likely stolen from him by some whore while he slept. But it does call into question the value of things. Good horses shouldn't cost more than several dragons, and a fine suit of plate armor seems to cost up to a hundred or so, and more if it has inlaid gems.



All I really rely on is the crown's debt. Three million owed to the Lannisters, a million to the Faith (until Cersei fixed that), a million or so to the Iron Bank, maybe a million to the Tyrells... It makes it seem that 40,000 would allow any common man to live comfortably all his life, in a manse by the sea, with a couple servants.



Perhaps GRRM fudged his numbers.


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idler Hedge Knight

idler

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Using the Wiki-method (LF's remark at the Tourney of the Hand that he could buy a dozen barrels of expensive Dornish wine with 100 Gold Dragons, and given they use normal 225-Liter-wine barrels and "expensive" means 100 € per bottle, we come to an exchange rate of 3 600 € per Gold Dragon. That seems quite realistic, we know 4 Gold Dragons can buy you a complete set of armour. So 40 000 Gold Dragons equal 144 Mio. €, quite a fortune. Anguy's 10 000 convert to 36 Mio. €.



Assuming a Gold Dragon has the same weight as an Aureus (8,19 g), 40 000 Dragons would be a weight of 328 kg, Stranger will never make that. Even Anguy's 10 000 Dragons have a weight of 82 kg. No idea where the two of them hide their money... :dunno:



Edited for calculation


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Gneisenau Council Member

Gneisenau

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Anguy won 10,000 dragons from the archery competition at the tourney, and according to him, he spent almost all of it on wine and women. Of course, he's probably lying and it was likely stolen from him by some whore while he slept. But it does call into question the value of things. Good horses shouldn't cost more than several dragons, and a fine suit of plate armor seems to cost up to a hundred or so, and more if it has inlaid gems.

All I really rely on is the crown's debt. Three million owed to the Lannisters, a million to the Faith (until Cersei fixed that), a million or so to the Iron Bank, maybe a million to the Tyrells... It makes it seem that 40,000 would allow any common man to live comfortably all his life, in a manse by the sea, with a couple servants.

Perhaps GRRM fudged his numbers.

TV Littlefinger mentions that a dozen barrels of fine Dornish costs about 100 dragons, so Anguy must have hired some high class women. Personally I think he should have just married one of them.

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Iona Council Member

Iona

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TV Littlefinger mentions that a dozen barrels of fine Dornish costs about 100 dragons, so Anguy must have hired some high class women. Personally I think he should have just married one of them.

Maybe he did, and that's why he's now broke and lives with a bunch of dudes in a cave.

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Jaak Council Member

Jaak

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An € is not a good comparison for medieval economy - relative prices are too different.


Take this:


http://www.luminarium.org/medlit/medprice.htm


Considering the assertion that 1 dragon is 210 stags, and a stag is 2,3 g, then a dragon should be worth about 480 g. A pound sterling was 350 g sterling silver between 1158 and 1412. (After 1412, silver got scarce, so pence were made lighter, but nominal prices stayed in similar range till 1530s.) So a dragon ought to be around 27 shillings.


We are talking about a prize of £ 55 000 for Sandor, and £ 14 000 for Anguy (and £ 8000 to buy the Gold Cloaks and thereby the realm). Feeding the household of a knight or merchant/rich commoner for 30 years (reasonable life expectancy for a man in his 20s) was £1000-£2000, so 750 to 1500 dragons. 100 dragons - £130 - could buy a luxurious house - ordinary merchant´s house would be 25-50 dragons. Castle like Tattershall would be around £ 6000, so 4500 dragons.



What would be your estimate of one time purchase price of a castle and lands of landed knight/petty lord, like Osgrey of Standfast, or Seaworth, or Baelish of Sheepshit?


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