Another Trailer Hits Youtube

[protar]

Everyone is aware that the Arya line in the trailer is spoken by Jaime, not Ramsay right (listen, trailer editing has caught a few here on this already)? I think it's clearly Jaime talking to Brienne in the "Oathkeeper" episode basically telling her that there's not really anything she can do about finding Arya but that she can go after Sansa (which she then answers "I'll find her"). They can't give away the fact that Sansa is missing in the trailer so it's edited to look like Brienne is saying she'll find Arya for Jaime.

Whether FArya ends up being on the show or not, that part of the trailer isn't addressing it.

Ramsay's line in the trailer is about Bran and Rickon since he knows they're still alive.

Hmm, you're right on a second look, although that doesn't invalidate the (imo rather clear) foreshadowing.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

The Ramsey line is of course about Bran and Rickon but its their absence that makes it all the more necessary to have a living 'Stark' under their control. That is clearly what the edit is getting at and as book readers we know they will use missing 'Arya' hence the next line about Arya not being in Kings Landing.

[King Tommen]

The Ramsey line is of course about Bran and Rickon but its their absence that makes it all the more necessary to have a living 'Stark' under their control. That is clearly what the edit is getting at and as book readers we know they will use missing 'Arya' hence the next line about Arya not being in Kings Landing.

I think the Bran and Rickon line is Ramsay asking Roose to go and hunt them and Roose shutting him down, presumably because they've got more important things to do. I think book readers have been looking for signs of the FArya plot for the last couple seasons (where none exist). Every shot of a girl in a trailer for the last 3 seasons has immediately been labelled "Jeyne Poole". The shot in this year's first trailer where Roose and Ramsay were meeting in the field in silhouette "had" to be the FArya handoff. The random girl being hunted by Ramsay was FArya. Myranda (the girl who helped chop off Theon's dong) was now the new FArya. And now finally, a line talking about Bran and Rickon escaping means we're getting FArya.

Excuse me while I'm a little more hesitant to jump on every single half baked theory about this plotline "It happened in the book" is no longer good enough. What's the show telling you is going to happen? Be honest with yourself.

[King Tommen]

Why would the Mountain Clans go with Stannis to Winterfell without 'Arya' needing to be saved from Ramsey?

Do you really think that based on how you've seen the show consolidate factions that they're going to bother with mountain tribes? And even if they do, how about Stannis tells them that the dirty Boltons who helped extinguish the beloved Starks have set up shop in Winterfell? Why would they only go if Arya happened to be present? Is getting revenge on the Boltons not motivation enough?

People have to stop thinking about the way things are explained in the books. Often, the explanations can be simplified and don't need to adhere to these strict rules we've put in place for ourselves.

[protar]

I think the Bran and Rickon line is Ramsay asking Roose to go and hunt them and Roose shutting him down, presumably because they've got more important things to do. I think book readers have been looking for signs of the FArya plot for the last couple seasons (where none exist). Every shot of a girl in a trailer for the last 3 seasons has immediately been labelled "Jeyne Poole". The shot in this year's first trailer where Roose and Ramsay were meeting in the field in silhouette "had" to be the FArya handoff. The random girl being hunted by Ramsay was FArya. Myranda (the girl who helped chop off Theon's dong) was now the new FArya. And now finally, a line talking about Bran and Rickon escaping means we're getting FArya.

Excuse me while I'm a little more hesitant to jump on every single half baked theory about this theory. "It happened in the book" is no longer good enough. What's the show telling you is going to happen? Be honest with yourself.

D+D don't intercut the trailers as they do for no reason. Imo those two lines and scenes being juxtaposed together is highly unlikely to be a coincidence. The fact that there has been no hinting of Farya up until this point is irrelevant. D+D have outright said that they have no wish to foreshadow things or set up plot points very far in advance. Sloppy writing in my opinion, but they seem to be of the belief that audiences can't handle more elaborate set ups so there's that. And as such setting up Farya in this season, and then introducing her in the next is what makes the most sense. There is plenty of time to give her a proper introduction in S5, especially as much of Theon's arc is quiet and contemplative and involves a spattering of minor characters which will be cut or condensed on the show.

[King Tommen]

D+D don't intercut the trailers as they do for no reason. Imo those two lines and scenes being juxtaposed together is highly unlikely to be a coincidence. The fact that there has been no hinting of Farya up until this point is irrelevant. D+D have outright said that they have no wish to foreshadow things or set up plot points very far in advance. Sloppy writing in my opinion, but they seem to be of the belief that audiences can't handle more elaborate set ups so there's that. And as such setting up Farya in this season, and then introducing her in the next is what makes the most sense. There is plenty of time to give her a proper introduction in S5, especially as much of Theon's arc is quiet and contemplative and involves a spattering of minor characters which will be cut or condensed on the show.

D&D don't cut the trailers, there's marketing people who do that stuff so I wouldn't take any of the editing there as some kind of indication of what will happen in the season. The reason the lines are cut that way is because they want to transition the dialogue from one scene to another and they found a couple where Stark kids are being discussed so it made for an easy link.

[Metopheles]

But did a reader know the Jeyne plot prior ASOS ? It was never mentioned.

Or I missed something. But it was not like from AGOT that you knew, oh they take away the Poole girl, surely she will be Farya

[King Tommen]

But did a reader know the Jeyne plot prior ASOS ? It was never mentioned.

Or I missed something. But it was not like from AGOT that you knew, oh they take away the Poole girl, surely she will be Farya

No, but Jeyne Poole was clearly taken away for a reason in AGoT. The fact that the readers aren't let in on that until a ASoS doesn't make it any less of a long-simmering plot initiated by Martin.

Just because the audience isn't aware of the importance doesn't mean that you can't set it up intricately.

[Hangover of the Morning]

But did a reader know the Jeyne plot prior ASOS ? It was never mentioned.

Or I missed something. But it was not like from AGOT that you knew, oh they take away the Poole girl, surely she will be Farya

Exactly. It was a total surprise and I certainly only had a very vague recollection of who Jeyne Poole was.

[Metopheles]

I think, all the love to GRRM, but I doubt , highly doubt, that he knew he would make Jeyne Poole into a fake Arya. He might. He might. But I doubt it. Just like JKR with her Horcruxes. They are amazing and complete the story and are something new, but there are huge plotholes because she came up with the idea late.

So apart from that, He certainly may have had plans for Jeyne, but there was no hint in the books. Similar to Lysa being the poisoner.

There are, however, tons of major long term plots in there. Jon, Mance, prophecies...

Just not Jeyne.

[King Tommen]

I think, all the love to GRRM, but I doubt , highly doubt, that he knew he would make Jeyne Poole into a fake Arya. He might. He might. But I doubt it. Just like JKR with her Horcruxes. They are amazing and complete the story and are something new, but there are huge plotholes because she came up with the idea late.

So apart from that, He certainly may have had plans for Jeyne, but there was no hint in the books. Similar to Lysa being the poisoner.

There are, however, tons of major long term plots in there. Jon, Mance, prophecies...

Just not Jeyne.

Whether he knew it was going to be about FArya or not, he clearly made a point of her getting taken away mysteriously so that he could use that point later on. That's so in ASoS, when it does come out and we see her again, the audience can say "oh, so that's why she was spirited away and we didn't hear about her again. That makes sense." Maybe it requires an AGOT re-read to fully appreciate it but it's there. Whether he knew what he was going to use her for specifically or not later on, he set it up in AGOT so that it made sense later on.

I'm not entirely sure how this relates to anything with regards to the show however. The showrunners have had the benefit of knowing about the FArya plot for a long time because it's in the books and have purposely not set one single thing up with regards to it. S4 is into ADwD material as far as Theon/Ramsay/Roose's story goes and they never bothered to even cast a girl who would fit in that spot (Jeyne Poole or not). That speaks volumes.

[Metopheles]

Whether he knew it was going to be about FArya or not, he clearly made a point of her getting taken away mysteriously so that he could use that point later on. That's so in ASoS, when it does come out and we see her again, the audience can say "oh, so that's why she was spirited away and we didn't hear about her again. That makes sense." Maybe it requires an AGOT re-read to fully appreciate it but it's there. Whether he knew what he was going to use her for specifically or not later on, he set it up in AGOT so that it made sense later on.

I'm not entirely sure how this relates to anything with regards to the show however. The showrunners have had the benefit of knowing about the FArya plot for a long time because it's in the books and have purposely not set one single thing up with regards to it. S4 is into ADwD material as far as Theon/Ramsay/Roose's story goes and they never bothered to even cast a girl who would fit in that spot (Jeyne Poole or not). That speaks volumes.

They might have even shot the scenes but didn't use them. Honestly no one would have remembered it. And how could we have been informed about it as show watcher ? We can't see Sansa's thoughts and she had no one to tell.

I think they will include it like in the books. plain jeyne being arya. No Myranda, no Yara, not anyone but Jeyne.

[protar]

D&D don't cut the trailers, there's marketing people who do that stuff so I wouldn't take any of the editing there as some kind of indication of what will happen in the season. The reason the lines are cut that way is because they want to transition the dialogue from one scene to another and they found a couple where Stark kids are being discussed so it made for an easy link.

Fine, whoever intercuts the trailers don't do so for no reason. It strikes me as clear foreshadowing, but hey I guess we'll see soon enough.

[Le Cygne]

Showrunners "manage every aspect of a TV show's development and production: creative, financial and logistical."

Showrunners are involved in all of these things some here keep saying they don't do. Others do artistic and technical work, but the direction usually comes from the showrunner, or someone the showrunner is directing. They are in charge.

Here's an example, Matthew Weiner is the showrunner for Mad Men:

"I have tied their hands," he tells Vulture, referring to the network’s promo department, "and I'm amazed at what they do with the restrictions I have given them. Over the years, it’s evolved into this semaphore of storytelling."...

So what are his instructions to the promo department, exactly?...

They now have it down to a science, although Weiner says he will still step in to, for example, nix any footage of Betty so her appearance is kept a surprise.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/matthew-weiner-on-those-mad-men-promos.html

[DaveyJoe]

The keyword there is manage. Does your manager do everything, or assign work for others to do?

[Rashtibram]

Everyone is aware that the Arya line in the trailer is spoken by Jaime, not Ramsay right (listen, trailer editing has caught a few here on this already)? I think it's clearly Jaime talking to Brienne in the "Oathkeeper" episode basically telling her that there's not really anything she can do about finding Arya but that she can go after Sansa (which she then answers "I'll find her"). They can't give away the fact that Sansa is missing in the trailer so it's edited to look like Brienne is saying she'll find Arya for Jaime.

Whether FArya ends up being on the show or not, that part of the trailer isn't addressing it.

Ramsay's line in the trailer is about Bran and Rickon since he knows they're still alive.

I think it's either what you think, or it's a conversation between Jaime and Tywin in which Tywin tells him that "Arya Stark will marry Ramsay Bolton." Nobody (I hope) is suggesting that it's Ramsay saying the line.

[King Tommen]

Showrunners "manage every aspect of a TV show's development and production: creative, financial and logistical."

Showrunners are involved in all of these things some here keep saying they don't do. Others do artistic and technical work, but the direction usually comes from the showrunner, or someone the showrunner is directing. They are in charge.

Here's an example, Matthew Weiner is the showrunner for Mad Men:

http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/matthew-weiner-on-those-mad-men-promos.html

Well aware what showrunners do, thanks. They sure as hell don't cut the trailers, they've got people to do that. They get a final look at it and approve it but they've got more important things to do then focus on the details of how certain 2 second scenes in trailers transition to others.

[Le Cygne]

This is one overview of the competencies, again, no one is saying they do everything personally, but they are running the show (hence, showrunner):

http://www.wgc.ca//files/WGC%20SHOWRUNNER%20CODEf.pdf

[protar]

Well aware what showrunners do, thanks. They sure as hell don't cut the trailers, they've got people to do that. They get a final look at it and approve it but they've got more important things to do then focus on the details of how certain 2 second scenes in trailers transition to others.

No one's claiming that they edit the trailers personally, but I'm sure they give the people who do an outline of what they want e.g "intercut these two scenes to foreshadow Farya.". They don't just let them do whatever they want before approving the trailers.

[DaveyJoe]

The only people who are having accomplishments minimized are the people who work in the HBO marketing department. Your quote from Matthew Weiner says that he was amazed by what the promotional dept came up with. That implies that he wasn't very hands on with the process at all. Sure some restrictions might be set to avoid spoiling major plot developments, like Sansa escaping King's Landing, but that's a far cry from inserting foreshadowing in a trailer as a wink to the audience. Around here we read way too much into the marketing. When the character posters were released people were crying "D&D hate Stannis!" because he didn't get a poster. You tried to link a video as proof that D&D are present for those shoots, but it wasn't a photo shoot, it was the filming of a scene for the show between Jaime and Cersei, and I even linked the production photo that the photographer took that day. Then it turned out that most of the character posters weren't shot fresh, but used from previous photos/scenes. Nobody has shown a real grasp of how TV production works, just made a lot of assumptions. I actually have 4+ years working in Television, but the people on this site with absolutely no experience are making ridiculous claims like they could do a better job than D&D despite not really knowing anything about it.

The people here tend to have the mindset that everything that comes out is for rabid book fans. HBO is trying to sell a show here, not please book fans. The trailers are made to generate interest among TV watchers, perhaps even gain new viewers. Nothing about the trailers are designed to please book readers. Look at the shot of the White Walker at the end of one of the trailers. Do we think D&D told trailer editors to put that in as a wink at Cold Hands, something for the book readers? Or did they want to tease a supernatural element for TV watchers? We'll see after watching season 4 but it's looking more and more like Cold Hands has been cut, and the show just wants to maintain interest in the White Walker threat.