Heresy 109

[Modesty Lannister]

This is one we worked out quite a while back:

Earth and Water represents the Old Gods; the natural order

Bronze and Iron, represents the New; the world that men have made

Ice and Fire, chanted by both, is the union of opposed forces

There is also a thought that this may have been the original oath by which the Pact was sworn.

So, you are certain you "worked it all out" and that no reading offered after that is valid? I'd say Feather Crystal's reading is more accurate than yours although they are similar.

[Black Crow]

What is a snowflake communion and what does it have to do with warging?

It happened at the Eyrie. A snowflake went into Sansa's mouth and she lost consciousness for a time, recovering to start building Winterfell in the snow. In previous discussions we've interpreted this as Sansa coming into communion once more with Winter.

An open question at the moment is Jon and that other snowflake; "Dance with me"

[Black Crow]

So, you are certain you "worked it all out" and that no reading offered after that is valid? I'd say Feather Crystal's reading is more accurate than yours although they are similar.

Its how we have interpreted it in previous discussions. There are subtle differences of opinion, as expressed by Feather, but the core interpretation is there.

[Black Crow]

Direwolfs are the necessary precondition. No one is disputing that, I actually emphasised that through Sansa's case. However, they are not all that is necessary. And I do not agree that it's sensory depravetion that triggers this, because Jon and Rickon were not sensorially deprived when they started linking with their dire wolfs on a magical level. It can be any sort of trauma.

I think we're slightly out of phase on this.

The argument is that the warging was triggered by the direwolves

The greenseeing/third eye business is what's triggered by the sensory deprivation.

Its a step process. Once the warging bond is in place its then possible for the Three-eyed Crow to come through the opened door and start Bran on the road to becoming a greenseer, and then later for Bran to come through the same door to start Jon's awakening.

[Modesty Lannister]

I think we're slightly out of phase on this.

The argument is that the warging was triggered by the direwolves

The greenseeing/third eye business is what's triggered by the sensory deprivation.

Its a step process. Once the warging bond is in place its then possible for the Three-eyed Crow to come through the opened door and start Bran on the road to becoming a greenseer, and then later for Bran to come through the same door to start Jon's awakening.

Ok. The direwolfs were there and happy Stark children were growing up with their pets. No one was warging. Than traumas begin. Different for every child accept from Robb who's in charge of events. Sansa loses her dog before traumas begin or should we say that's where her traumas begin. And suddenly all Stark children dream or warg etc. So, direwolfs are precondition, traumas are triggers. I don't see why you have any problem with this. It's not complicated or mystical at all. Your insistence on sensory deprivation works for Bran. Arya was dreaming of Nymeria before her eyesight was taken from her. Rickon was never sensorially deprived and yet he dreamed a green dream of Ned's beheading. So, your argument does not stand. Trauma of being left alone by his parents and being afraid all the time is what triggers Rickon. Trauma of the fall is what triggers Bran's green dreams. Trauma of the things he experienced beyond the wall triggers Jon's abilities. Trauma of the RW triggers Arya. Sansa has been triggered by all the traumas she experienced, but she has no wolf of dire wolf, no weirwood tree around, so she cannot make the connection. That's the point of the Andal cutting down all weirwood trees in the south.

[Modesty Lannister]

It happened at the Eyrie. A snowflake went into Sansa's mouth and she lost consciousness for a time, recovering to start building Winterfell in the snow. In previous discussions we've interpreted this as Sansa coming into communion once more with Winter.

An open question at the moment is Jon and that other snowflake; "Dance with me"

I assume you are referring to this quote.

At the center of the garden, beside the statue of the weeping woman that lay broken and half-buried on the ground, she turned her face up to the sky and closed her eyes. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams.

When Sansa opened her eyes again, she was on her knees. She did not remember falling. it seemed to her that the sky was a lighter shade of grey. Dawn, she thought. Another day. Another new day. It was the old days she hungered for. Prayed for. But who could she pray to? The garden had been meant for a godswood once, she knew, but the soil was too thin and stony for a weirwood to take root. A godswood without gods, as empty as me.

Firstly, I don't read it as fainting, because she would not fall on her knees and stay on her knees if she fainted. She would fall to the ground and then wake up. Secondly, no one is all these books mentioned any "snow flake initiation", so that is purely your speculation with no basis in the text. Thirdly, the quote explains her urge to connect with northern magic, but since she has no means (I explained this in my previous post), she starts recreating Winterfell. Later, LF comes and helps her with it. They finish the castle together while the dawn is breaking. I wonder how would you read that?

[Blade of Sunlight]

Hi, first time poster so I apologize in advance for any idiotic content...

IMHO the Reed's oath probably predates the Targaryen invasion, their connection to the old gods suggest that they are a Hose dating from the times of the FM so i believe it's unlikely they change their oath to include fire in relation to the Targaryen, wich means fire must mean something else (that may or may not include the Targaryens, more likely dragon in general).

Still about the Crannogmen it's interesting that they appear to be a "race" of their own, the don't look like the FM, the Andals or the Dornishmen and they are certainly not Valyrian, so there's probably something interesting lorewise about them.

In relation to skinchanging and greenseing, analyzing the only fully developed greenseer currently active, BR, and assuming he was a skinchanger even before he arrived at the wall (which would explain his "thousand eyes and one") , i believe that the time he was in the black cells was probably the time he increased his powers, giving further traction to those who believe a time of sensory deprivation/meditation is required for greenseeing (not warging/skinchanging).

As for the Stark kids, it's safe to assume their relationship with the direwolves is unlike normal warging, possibly because (as someone said) the direwolves are one of the older races, and probably considerably smarter than the common animal.
I don't think it's clear that Rob didn't have wolf-dreams or something similar, he is not a POV, and it would be highly unlikely that he would say something about his dreams to anyone (given he is a King at war).

[Yield.]

There are a couple of aspects to this debate about the warg/skinchanging and trauma or sensory deprivation trigger that I think are being overlooked.

First is the fact that the direwolves are indeed pups. This I think is very important. Would a grown direwolf be willing to bond with a person? What would the motivation be for a predator that can just about out match all others want with a human? Particularly since it's humans that have hunted them to near extinction. I'm more inclined to see that bond between the kids and the pups as mutually beneficial in this case. The pups would have died if they hadn't been found. The Stark children learn and develop magically due to the bond they form with the direwolves. We may find that this link is what ultimately saves House Stark. And even if it doesn't their bonds have certainly brought them back to the roots of their lineage since their sigil is a direwolf and it's a probably a large part of why they became the Kings of Winter/ in the North.

The second bit that I think is rather important as well is the trauma that is suffered by the direwolves. They have lost their mother and are sucking at drying milk. We've talked a lot about how the Stark kids suffered but not at all about what the wolves have. Ghost recounts that they were days without the protection and warmth of mummy, wandering around blind and crying. That's pretty traumatic for puppies. Anyone that's taken home a newly weaned pup knows about separation anxiety in the puppy and how they need a period of adjustment. These guys were not even weaned.

That said I think the trauma part is only important in it's effect. In other words, had not the circumstances been as they are, the bonding would not take place. If mother wolf had killed the stag and lived would the pups have even encountered a human? If Rickon wasn't left all alone would he have taken solace in his wolf? Had Arya felt at all in control of her life would she have escaped into her wolf at night to feel strong? Would Bran have slipped into Summer if he could still clime? I disagree Modesty that Robb hasn't had trauma, he has. It's pretty traumatic to have an entire homestead, the surrounding lands, his younger brothers and the rule of the entire North thrust onto 15 year old shoulders. And that was with both his parents alive. What came after I wouldn't wish on any teenager. Robb takes strength from his bond with Greywind in the same way Jon took strength from Ghost. Both boys were in situations that were beyond them.

Sansa on the other hand is an interesting puzzle. She has probably suffered the worst of psychological traumas than any of them. However she still dreams of Lady and even in the dream state memories she takes strength from Lady. When she is in the Fingers we see her taking comfort from the old bitch that crawls into her bed. She wishes it was Lady, but the fact that she yearns for that connection is indicative that there was one even before she suffered any losses. So again I think the trauma is secondary in the children. It's a good catalyst. The sensory deprivation is as well. Neither I think though is essential. The bond would grow regardless. The key I think is in the fact that the children are children and the pups are pups and as such they both grow and learn together.

[Modesty Lannister]

There are a couple of aspects to this debate about the warg/skinchanging and trauma or sensory deprivation trigger that I think are being overlooked.

First is the fact that the direwolves are indeed pups. This I think is very important. Would a grown direwolf be willing to bond with a person? What would the motivation be for a predator that can just about out match all others want with a human? Particularly since it's humans that have hunted them to near extinction. I'm more inclined to see that bond between the kids and the pups as mutually beneficial in this case. The pups would have died if they hadn't been found. The Stark children learn and develop magically due to the bond they form with the direwolves. We may find that this link is what ultimately saves House Stark. And even if it doesn't their bonds have certainly brought them back to the roots of their lineage since their sigil is a direwolf and it's a probably a large part of why they became the Kings of Winter/ in the North.

The second bit that I think is rather important as well is the trauma that is suffered by the direwolves. They have lost their mother and are sucking at drying milk. We've talked a lot about how the Stark kids suffered but not at all about what the wolves have. Ghost recounts that they were days without the protection and warmth of mummy, wandering around blind and crying. That's pretty traumatic for puppies. Anyone that's taken home a newly weaned pup knows about separation anxiety in the puppy and how they need a period of adjustment. These guys were not even weaned.

That said I think the trauma part is only important in it's effect. In other words, had not the circumstances been as they are, the bonding would not take place. If mother wolf had killed the stag and lived would the pups have even encountered a human? If Rickon wasn't left all alone would he have taken solace in his wolf? Had Arya felt at all in control of her life would she have escaped into her wolf at night to feel strong? Would Bran have slipped into Summer if he could still clime? I disagree Modesty that Robb hasn't had trauma, he has. It's pretty traumatic to have an entire homestead, the surrounding lands, his younger brothers and the rule of the entire North thrust onto 15 year old shoulders. And that was with both his parents alive. What came after I wouldn't wish on any teenager. Robb takes strength from his bond with Greywind in the same way Jon took strength from Ghost. Both boys were in situations that were beyond them.

Sansa on the other hand is an interesting puzzle. She has probably suffered the worst of psychological traumas than any of them. However she still dreams of Lady and even in the dream state memories she takes strength from Lady. When she is in the Fingers we see her taking comfort from the old bitch that crawls into her bed. She wishes it was Lady, but the fact that she yearns for that connection is indicative that there was one even before she suffered any losses. So again I think the trauma is secondary in the children. It's a good catalyst. The sensory deprivation is as well. Neither I think though is essential. The bond would grow regardless. The key I think is in the fact that the children are children and the pups are pups and as such they both grow and learn together.

Great narrative. You may not agree that it ties well with what I said, but I do think it does. Thanks for pointing out the Robb aspect. I do agree with you.

[Tyryan Lannister]

I don't want to divert to much but has there been a thesis/opinion on what the oath of the Reeds meant when they first meet Bran?

It is in aCoK:

Jojen says: By earth & water

Meera says: By bronze & iron

Both: By Ice & Fire

Bran then mentions he has no clue what it means.

This is one we worked out quite a while back:

Earth and Water represents the Old Gods; the natural order

Bronze and Iron, represents the New; the world that men have made

Ice and Fire, chanted by both, is the union of opposed forces

There is also a thought that this may have been the original oath by which the Pact was sworn.

Or.....it could be.....

Earth and Water represent the original inhabitants of Westeros, the Children, giants, etc

Bronze is First Men and Iron is Andal

Ice and Fire are the consequences of breaking the pact

Also....just throwing my two cents in.....trauma is needed to open the third eye, wargs are people who can skinchange with a wolf, skinchanger is a general term to include all who have the ability to slip into animals, the Stark children all bonded with their direwolves prior to any trauma....their lives were normal and happy, but their abilities grew as the child and wolf grew. Only a few wargs are greenseers, but there is some evidence that more than one Stark child is a greenseer. Varamyr was a warg because he could skin change into wolves. I don't think it has to be a direwolf in order to be a warg...just a wolf.

There's also:

Earth and Water = Nature

Bronze and Iron = Man

Ice and Fire = Magic

For further analysis of this, I suggest H34-36 (where we first discovered this) and H96 (?) which contains my guest OP on Magic and Balance in ASOIAF

[Tyryan Lannister]

@ Yield: agree with your above post

On the whole trauma/deprivation/bond issue:

Working off of what Yield demonstrates above, the bond already exists. However, the Stark kids are largely unable to access the bond beyond a sense of feeling a special connection until after the traumas occur. The traumas are not what create the bond; they are what allows active access to the bond.

[addicted to snow]

Ok i'm home and as promised the quotes:

Physical abuse

Emotional Trauma: To paraphrase V6(Lump) was born sickly so sickly he was expected to die,they did not name him and he did not get attention from his mom and dad the way he should have because they expected him to die.I'm also highlighting a blue part because it is important.

The blue part indicates how he felt about his brother,his brother had what he wanted..his parents affection so he used one of the dogs to kill him.

1. Lack of love and affection from parents

2. Physical abuse from father

3. Friends mudered by father

4. Given away by parents

5. Trauma of a difficult birth which made him sickly.

V6 was a sociopath because his environment and probaly some factors of his development as a fetus( he was born sickly) contributed to how he came out.

Both Quotes that you provided took place AFTER he had become a Warg, so they cannot be considered a 'traumatic event' that triggered him to becoming a warg...

By your definition of trauma, everyone in Westeros should be a Warg.

[Yield.]

Great narrative. You may not agree that it ties well with what I said, but I do think it does. Thanks for pointing out the Robb aspect. I do agree with you.

I thought I did agree that it ties in with what you said. You said that the trauma is the trigger right? I said the trauma is the catalyst because more specifically it is the effect the trauma has on the individual and the circumstances that cause the bond to evolve the way it does. It's largely looking at the same thing with a slight difference because the effect is impossible without the circumstance. I do think that eventually the bond would grow and reach the present state of affairs but that isn't to say that it would happen over night and if both parties are inclined to have it reach that level. However it's a moot point since the initiating traumatic event -- mother direwolf dying -- has already happened along with all that happens to the kids.

@ Yield: agree with your above post

On the whole trauma/deprivation/bond issue:

Working off of what Yield demonstrates above, the bond already exists. However, the Stark kids are largely unable to access the bond beyond a sense of feeling a special connection until after the traumas occur. The traumas are not what create the bond; they are what allows active access to the bond.

Right, that's what I'm saying. The sensory deprivation is another way it works too because the effect of having one or more of your senses deprived causes the individual to reach out with their other senses. If the person happens to have the ability, like Arya has, to use a connection then they do.

In other words:

Trauma causes a need that is filled by the bond

Sensory deprivation causes a need that is filled by the bond

[Armstark]

Where does it say that?

Of course where we learn almost everything we know about skinchanging: Varamyr's prologue.

Those he killed, but he never harmed the women. Some he even blessed with

children. Runts. Small, puny things, like Lump, and not one with the gift.

So Varamyrs skinchanging is not inherited by his children. Of course things might be different with the Starks but I think it holds true for all.

[Black Crow]

I assume you are referring to this quote.

Firstly, I don't read it as fainting, because she would not fall on her knees and stay on her knees if she fainted. She would fall to the ground and then wake up. Secondly, no one is all these books mentioned any "snow flake initiation", so that is purely your speculation with no basis in the text. Thirdly, the quote explains her urge to connect with northern magic, but since she has no means (I explained this in my previous post), she starts recreating Winterfell. Later, LF comes and helps her with it. They finish the castle together while the dawn is breaking. I wonder how would you read that?

Its not my speculation, but something that has been thoroughly discussed on both Heresy and elsewhere up and down the board

[Black Crow]

There are a couple of aspects to this debate about the warg/skinchanging and trauma or sensory deprivation trigger that I think are being overlooked.

First is the fact that the direwolves are indeed pups. This I think is very important. Would a grown direwolf be willing to bond with a person? What would the motivation be for a predator that can just about out match all others want with a human? Particularly since it's humans that have hunted them to near extinction. I'm more inclined to see that bond between the kids and the pups as mutually beneficial in this case. The pups would have died if they hadn't been found. The Stark children learn and develop magically due to the bond they form with the direwolves. We may find that this link is what ultimately saves House Stark. And even if it doesn't their bonds have certainly brought them back to the roots of their lineage since their sigil is a direwolf and it's a probably a large part of why they became the Kings of Winter/ in the North.

The second bit that I think is rather important as well is the trauma that is suffered by the direwolves. They have lost their mother and are sucking at drying milk. We've talked a lot about how the Stark kids suffered but not at all about what the wolves have. Ghost recounts that they were days without the protection and warmth of mummy, wandering around blind and crying. That's pretty traumatic for puppies. Anyone that's taken home a newly weaned pup knows about separation anxiety in the puppy and how they need a period of adjustment. These guys were not even weaned.

That said I think the trauma part is only important in it's effect. In other words, had not the circumstances been as they are, the bonding would not take place. If mother wolf had killed the stag and lived would the pups have even encountered a human? If Rickon wasn't left all alone would he have taken solace in his wolf? Had Arya felt at all in control of her life would she have escaped into her wolf at night to feel strong? Would Bran have slipped into Summer if he could still clime? I disagree Modesty that Robb hasn't had trauma, he has. It's pretty traumatic to have an entire homestead, the surrounding lands, his younger brothers and the rule of the entire North thrust onto 15 year old shoulders. And that was with both his parents alive. What came after I wouldn't wish on any teenager. Robb takes strength from his bond with Greywind in the same way Jon took strength from Ghost. Both boys were in situations that were beyond them.

Sansa on the other hand is an interesting puzzle. She has probably suffered the worst of psychological traumas than any of them. However she still dreams of Lady and even in the dream state memories she takes strength from Lady. When she is in the Fingers we see her taking comfort from the old bitch that crawls into her bed. She wishes it was Lady, but the fact that she yearns for that connection is indicative that there was one even before she suffered any losses. So again I think the trauma is secondary in the children. It's a good catalyst. The sensory deprivation is as well. Neither I think though is essential. The bond would grow regardless. The key I think is in the fact that the children are children and the pups are pups and as such they both grow and learn together.

:agree:

And, with reference to Addicted's remark on trauma its important to keep in mind that it is the direwolves and the bond with them which makes the Stark kids unique; if trauma alone was to trigger the skinchanging/warging ability the whole of Westeros would be doing it. Here we have six children and six direwolves and everything revolves around that simple pairing.

[Black Crow]

Hi, first time poster so I apologize in advance for any idiotic content...

IMHO the Reed's oath probably predates the Targaryen invasion, their connection to the old gods suggest that they are a Hose dating from the times of the FM so i believe it's unlikely they change their oath to include fire in relation to the Targaryen, wich means fire must mean something else (that may or may not include the Targaryens, more likely dragon in general).

Still about the Crannogmen it's interesting that they appear to be a "race" of their own, the don't look like the FM, the Andals or the Dornishmen and they are certainly not Valyrian, so there's probably something interesting lorewise about them.

In relation to skinchanging and greenseing, analyzing the only fully developed greenseer currently active, BR, and assuming he was a skinchanger even before he arrived at the wall (which would explain his "thousand eyes and one") , i believe that the time he was in the black cells was probably the time he increased his powers, giving further traction to those who believe a time of sensory deprivation/meditation is required for greenseeing (not warging/skinchanging).

As for the Stark kids, it's safe to assume their relationship with the direwolves is unlike normal warging, possibly because (as someone said) the direwolves are one of the older races, and probably considerably smarter than the common animal.

I don't think it's clear that Rob didn't have wolf-dreams or something similar, he is not a POV, and it would be highly unlikely that he would say something about his dreams to anyone (given he is a King at war).

Regarding your first, as I mentioned in my post there has been some thought that the oath may be the one used to conclude the Pact. There are various ways of interpreting the first two elements, but its largely a matter of semantics as there's broad agreement that earth and water represent nature, whether expressed as the Old Gods or the Old Races or whatever and that Bronze and Iron represent men. There's been quite a lot of debate as to whether or not iron was peculiar to the Andals and whether in this context it would imply the Andals were party to the oath. On balance I'm inclined to allow the later First Men the use or iron [but not necessarily steel] but its open.

As to the Ice and Fire the Reeds use it elsewhere in conversation as a metaphor for opposites so I certainly wouldn't look for a Targaryen connection.

Bryn Blackwood, we suspect was a skinchanger long before he came to the Wall having been named and brought up by his Blackwood mother, presumably in the name of the Old Gods and in communion with the family ravens, and yes we too have speculated that the sensory deprivation of the black cells allowed the opening of his third eye.

As to the direwolves, as we've been discussing its not ordinary skinchanging, but a mutual bonding , quite unlike what Varamyr was doing - and what Bran does with Hodor. There is a bit of a questionmark over the crows though. Something else we've discussed in the past is their ubiquity in the story and a strong suspicion that they too are one of the Old Races and on a par with the direwolves

[Modesty Lannister]

Its not my speculation, but something that has been thoroughly discussed on both Heresy and elsewhere up and down the board

With all due respect, as you can plainly see, some of us joined this forum much later than you. Whatever you write, I take as your own opinion unless you state otherwise. Whether it has been previously discussed or not is irrelevant for participants of this discussion. Whatever you established or think you established (whoever "you" are) is not definitive since each new member of the forum has something to add to the forum. So, it would be nice and respectful to do what Tyryan Lannister has been doing and that is to refer to a specific thread, so that we can read what was discussed there. Since you have not done that and I'm not a green seer, I can only go by by what you write. I disputed your claim and provided your quote. You didn't even bother to respond. You just said it was concluded at some other thread. Case closed. So, why do you bother with this thread then when all is concluded in your head?

[Black Crow]

Its not concluded at all, like everything else on this thread it is and remains open to discussion. I was merely pointing out that it has been discussed before and if you feel that it does merit further argument one way or another feel free. What I also pointed out was that it wasn't "my" theory but something I'm aware of and inclined to agree with - which isn't the same thing at all.

Heresy is a collective business with very little if anything that can be copyrighted to an individual. We all have our input and opinions in a constantly evolving thread. The Snowflake Communion is not a topic which has been discussed recently so I can't refer back through the previous 108 iterations of the thread to identify when it was last chewed over, although Wolfmaid's guide may have something.

[Eira Seren]

Simple,from V6 detailed retelling of his childhood he discovered his gift when he accidentally "fled" from his father when he came home into the dogs and continued doing it (fleeing into the dogs when his dad came home). Long story short trauma/abuse prompted V6's reaction of fleeing into the dogs,but it was still "his" actions.There was nothing magical about the dogs,but V6 blood was the factor and his rather unfortuante home environment.Plus V6 was in an environment where the idea of weird things happening was not un heard of hence the reason once his family knew what he was they knew where to send him.Lastly,no,no and no in this story Direwolves are not like dogs.I wouldn't even compare them. That's like comparing a Dragon to a Monitor Lizard.

Lets face it the Stark kids had a pretty wholesome childhood,no body was trembling because Ned was coming home.They were not abused or anything like that. Lets look at the moment in all the Stark kids cases where it became apparent what was happening with them and the gift became apparent. Their living environment changed and became traumatic.Mystery solved.Now had their been noooo Direwolves and life on WF went south,it might of happened.But in this case "the Direwolves" were there so that "they" could initiate a bond with the Starks...."they" not anything else "they".Remember we were talking about them the Direwolves being members of "the old races". What do you think is the importance of sneaking members of this race to bond with 'certain" people who were suseptible to that kind of thing?Think about it.

As to your last point you are mistaken in thinking that is has no bearing on the story. Its the reason Bran failed two times with the Crow in the cave. It was the lesson V6 could not learn. The secret to skinchanging is "sharing" not talking by force and only certain creatues in this story have the ability to be the initiators of sharing their skin.

I agree,its not something that i think will ever be explored,but we are talking about it because lets see....Oh yeah Modesty Lannister or Jojen brought it up based on Redriver's belief that's why we were discussing it.So i guess you should ask Redriver why he/she initially believes the Comet is the reason magic is back and what point that has in the story.

I read your post and i still disagree,based on the ssm i still believe i'm right in this because it poroved i'm right in this.V6 is not a Warg.Tell me can you show me the communication between v6 and his animals....any of them

Communication as defined is "the imparting or exchanging of information."

This has not occured in V6's case ever,when he was in the wolves there is no exchange of info no talking back and forth. He does not say anything of a sought when even talking about his experiance with his dogs. It is only his mind with the wolves,shadow cat and she bear in control no communication with any of his animals.He is him and they are not there,he overpowerd them and bent their will.

Not the case with Bran and Jon with their wolves.Clear communication back and forth symbiotic relationship going on with them. Not with V6 and his animals.

Not to derail, I'm just getting caught up and wanted to say that this is an important contrast between V6 and Bran. We get glimpses of the bond with V6, but the way he engages it is different from Bran. I think you are right, it is down to the issue of control -- V6 views it as holding them in his 'thrall' (don't have the exact quote). Bran views Summer more as an extension of self, and the danger comes in when he takes up residence in Hodor's mind, where we get a real sense that he wasn't invited in. It's a colossal invasion of the self, and a very different relationship than the mutual bond Bran and Summer share.

I think your understanding of warging is pretty nuanced. We can only speculate that what V6 practices is different from what the old Kings of Winter practiced, because maybe they weren't so nice, either. The other component might be that when V6 got started, magic wasn't as strong (if we believe Mel), so the control thing was the best V6 could muster, he never got beyond it. On the other hand, V6 might never have been interested in sharing, as Bran seems to. For him, it was always about the power he got from exerting control over his animals.

Bran may be more representative of 'the good king' or 'good use of magic' trope in the story. He's going to have to figure out the Hodor thing, not every character is perfect.