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Is Ned's mother a commoner?


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#1 Jaime FTW

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:49 AM

It's unlikely, but i don't see another reason why she or her House wasn't mentioned at all. Starks should have some cousins from her House or some uncles or aunts.

Or maybe she was the last representative of her House?    



#2 Formerly Tetrarch42

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:54 AM

I don't think she could be a commoner, the Starks being a Great House and all. I believe GRRM said something like "you guys think about this stuff too fucking much" (lol) in response to someone asking him who Eddard's mother was. So I guess either it isn't important or GRRM intends to keep the importance of this revelation secret.

I've heard somewhere that she was a Flint, maybe someone could confirm/deny that.



#3 benalapin

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:56 AM

Starks do have cousins in other houses -- Cat discusses this with Robb when they are discussing his heir. 



#4 Free Northman Reborn

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:03 AM

If you look at the immense detail Martin has gone to with so many family trees, it is a glaring omission for him to not have specified Ned's mother's House.

 

It clearly didn't just slip through the cracks. It was left blank for a reason. It will have plot significance down the line.


Edited by Free Northman Reborn, 23 April 2014 - 05:06 AM.


#5 danm_999

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:14 AM

Given it would be so unusual for a Lord Paramount to be married to a commoner, and a Lord Paramount to be born to a commoner, wouldn't that make it more likely we'd heard something about it before?



#6 Mrs_Darcy

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:23 AM

Given it would be so unusual for a Lord Paramount to be married to a commoner, and a Lord Paramount to be born to a commoner, wouldn't that make it more likely we'd heard something about it before?

 

That's actually a pretty good argument, that I had not considered before. We know of Jenny of Oldstones and the Prince of Dragonflies (there are some popular songs about them). We know, that Aegon the Unlikely and all his sons married for love (though they could have married some noble, who was just not of an important family). All these marriages are talked about even long after all people involved are dead (Aegon's sons died when Rhaegar was born, that was about 40 years before the books take place)

 

Rickard Stark was one of the most desirable marriage prospects at that time and not that much beneath the Targaryen princes. He was Warden of the North, the only living child of his father and heir to half the realm. If he had married a commoner, this would have been talked about.



#7 Free Northman Reborn

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:26 AM

She most certainly was not a commoner.

 

And it is further highly likely that she was from a Northern bannerhouse of the Starks.

 

And she was not a Flint. Her mother was a Flint. The identity of her father's House is the enigma.

 

The appropriate question to answer the riddle is "Which house is a Flint of the Mountains likely to marry his daughter to?"

 

Since these Flints are considered little more than primitive tribes by some of the more prominent Northern Houses - see Roose's comments about them in Dance - I would think that narrows it down a bit.

 

My view is a Skagosi House.


Edited by Free Northman Reborn, 23 April 2014 - 05:29 AM.


#8 FerociousVeldtRoarer

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:32 AM

It's unlikely, but i don't see another reason why she or her House wasn't mentioned at all. Starks should have some cousins from her House or some uncles or aunts.

Or maybe she was the last representative of her House?    

 

No. Had she been a commoner, we would have heard about it. Also: if his salt shaker wasn't described, I will assume it didn't have a shape of a twelve-foot tall orange penguin. Things so far out of norm kind of draw attention.


Edited by FerociousVeldtRoarer, 23 April 2014 - 05:33 AM.


#9 TheCrannogDweller

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:48 AM

Starks do have cousins in other houses -- Cat discusses this with Robb when they are discussing his heir. 

 

   Then there is this exchange between Jon and Stannis:

 

   “The Karstarks abandoned my brother amongst his enemies.”

   “After your brother took off Lord Rickard’s head. Arnolf was a thousand leagues away. He has Stark blood in him. The blood of Winterfell.

   “No more than half the other Houses of the north.”

 

   ... and less than a handful of Houses in the Vale (those Catelyn mentioned to Robb).


Edited by TheCrannogDweller, 23 April 2014 - 05:48 AM.


#10 Sambal

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:57 AM

She most certainly was not a commoner.

 

And it is further highly likely that she was from a Northern bannerhouse of the Starks.

 

And she was not a Flint. Her mother was a Flint. The identity of her father's House is the enigma.

 

The appropriate question to answer the riddle is "Which house is a Flint of the Mountains likely to marry his daughter to?"

 

Since these Flints are considered little more than primitive tribes by some of the more prominent Northern Houses - see Roose's comments about them in Dance - I would think that narrows it down a bit.

 

My view is a Skagosi House.

 

That would be very interesting if she would've met her grandson Rickon, but i doubt it.



#11 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:03 AM

I don't think so, she was married to the Warden of the North and had a Flint mother. 



#12 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:09 AM

I think it is likely that she was a mid level Northern Lords daughter. 



#13 TheCrannogDweller

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:22 AM

I think it is likely that she was a mid level Northern Lords daughter. 

 

   I think that's the safest bet, but I also wouldn't be surprised if she comes from a Vale House, like the Royces. It would further explain why they wanted to join the war on Robb's side.



#14 joluoto2

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:30 AM

No, she was not a commoner. That would have been a scandal everyone would talk about for generations.



#15 Kienn

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:50 AM

She was the daughter of Jenny of the First Flints (Oldstones) and Duncan the Small.

#16 Wmarshal

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:53 AM

She was the daughter of Jenny of the First Flints (Oldstones) and Duncan the Small.

Jenny was a commoner of the river lands.

#17 Jaime FTW

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:55 AM

She was the daughter of Jenny of the First Flints (Oldstones) and Duncan the Small.

Duncan was a prince. he couldn't marry Flint girl. they may had a bastard, but marrying a bastard is even worse then marrying a commoner.



#18 TheCrannogDweller

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:01 AM

She was the daughter of Jenny of the First Flints (Oldstones) and Duncan the Small.

 

   Oldstones has nothing to do with the Flints.



#19 The Santa of House Claus

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:02 AM

It has not been talked about because it does not matter. Maybe that will change if they get into the line of succession for Winterfell, but unlikely. Other family trees and marriages have been brought up because that info is important or helpful to the story, the Stark Family Tree is not... Yet.

#20 Valerius

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:22 AM

My guess is that Ned's maternal grandfather is House Hornwood, making Ned's mother also from House Hornwood, based on this Wiki:

 

http://awoiaf.wester...f_the_mountains

 

  • The Flints are reported to have ties to House Hornwood through the female line, though the text does not specify which branch.

 

The Hornwoods are a major house. I'm surprised they'd agree to marry into the Flints of the Mountains, who don't even have proper lords. They have chiefs, making them not much better than wildlings. 

 

Also, note the Flints claim ties to Hornwood through the FEMALE line.


Edited by Valerius, 23 April 2014 - 07:25 AM.