Stannis Sacrifice

[Bronn Urgandy]

Bloodraven is a kinslayer, maybe he's playing the Agamemnon role, with Mel as his daughter. S+B=M being true, of course. Not that I am arguing against as such, but these mythological, real life and literature parallels (of which there are a lot) are not going to follow to the letter.

[Mladen]

Has no influence for the moral aspect but the legal one. Bastards like Ramsay presumably have killed their highborn brother but no one ever mentions the kinslaying.

Then you have situations were family members fight against each other in wars.

Kinslaying is kinslaying, there is no legal matter regarding a bastard. Ramsay is whispered to have killed his brother, but no one knows for sure. Theon was even called kinslayer, even though Bran and Rickon are not hi brother. Killing a blood relative is always considered kinslaying. And as for killing in wars, Aemond was considered kinslayer when he killed Lucerys.

[Stormland's Fury]

Kinslaying is kinslaying, there is no legal matter regarding a bastard. Ramsay is whispered to have killed his brother, but no one knows for sure. Theon was even called kinslayer, even though Bran and Rickon are not hi brother. Killing a blood relative is always considered kinslaying. And as for killing in wars, Aemond was considered kinslayer when he killed Lucerys.

I am not really arguing, just curious.

And yes Stannis knows he ultimately killed him, but I think he found actually a loophole there.

[Bronn Urgandy]

I am not really arguing, just curious.

And yes Stannis knows he ultimately killed him, but I think he found actually a loophole there.

One of the areas show Stannis has book Stannis trumped, I reckon. I say the King is lying, he knows how Penrose died, he knows how Renly died.

[Stormland's Fury]

One of the areas show Stannis has book Stannis trumped, I reckon. I say the King is lying, he knows how Penrose died, he knows how Renly died.

I actually liked how in the show he was doing the whole thing in a matter of fact fashion and after Blackwater he was genuinely broken and upset about Renly's death as that's what happens if your emotionally vulnerable, you cling to close ones.

[To catch a Lannister]

Everyone will become one with the Others and the world will be a utopia of half-human half-Other.

Then GRRM has to release 2 new endings cause people hated it so much

[chrisdaw]

Should Stannis learn R+L=J and come to believe Jon would have support for the IT, he could marry Shireen to Jon and remove himself from the line by taking the black. The NW need Stannis, his realm needs him to lead the NW, and a King's duty is to his realm.

Maybe Jon + Shireen = Stone Dragon.

[Stormland's Fury]

Then GRRM has to release 2 new endings cause people hated it so much

Why? Meets the cynics and the idealists halfway.

[Khal Shaggydog]

I don't think anyone is letting Ramsay off for the kinslaying, its just not his most heinous crimes that we've seen in the books thus far. That would probably go (in no particular order): hunting women with dogs, raping and skinning and killing them (sometimes killing then skinning); starving his wife, possibly flaying her; torture of Theon, more flaying; killing the miller's sons; killing his young half-brother; whatever he has done with Jeyne Poole, etc etc etc. The guy is beyond redemption, so I don't think anyone is giving him a pass.

Stannis definitely knows he is guilty of kinslaying, but I think his possible loophole is not that he had it done by shadow baby assassin, it was more that he didn't fully understand exactly what Mel would do. he might have thought she would use his seed to cause Renly's downfall more generally, but then when he realized he directly ordered the hit, he felt bad. He obviously realized it when he had Penrose killed, it was a directed attack. He then considered kinslaying again with Edric (both his blood and his wife's blood, it should be noted), but waffled enough on that one it gave Davos time to facilitate escape.

[Stormland's Fury]

I don't think anyone is letting Ramsay off for the kinslaying, its just not his most heinous crimes that we've seen in the books thus far. That would probably go (in no particular order): hunting women with dogs, raping and skinning and killing them (sometimes killing then skinning); starving his wife, possibly flaying her; torture of Theon, more flaying; killing the miller's sons; killing his young half-brother; whatever he has done with Jeyne Poole, etc etc etc. The guy is beyond redemption, so I don't think anyone is giving him a pass.

The scary part is that, in Westeros, kinslaying is still seen as more heinous than half of the other crimes he committed.

[To catch a Lannister]

Why? Meets the cynics and the idealists halfway.

Hah when I made the joke I was referencing Mass Effect 3, a game with a notoriously unpopular ending that was so reviled the developers released DLC specifically to clarify what happened and offer the player additional choices

[The King of the Night]

Do I believe in King's blood? No. Do I believe in sacrificial blood magic? Yes.

Here is my opinion on the matter:

Bran is under the roots of a tree now so he may have a part to play in the rise of the dragon if Stannis and Agamemnon are as similar as they seem.

Back to the OP I think he would sacrifice Shireen. Its only a matter of time before he is convinced that he needs a Nisa Nisa and he probably doesnt love anyone else in the world.

[Stormland's Fury]

Hah when I made the joke I was referencing Mass Effect 3, a game with a notoriously unpopular ending that was so reviled the developers released DLC specifically to clarify what happened and offer the player additional choices

Oh damn, how could I not get it. Haven't played the game myself, but heard all about the shit storm concerning the ending and the DLC.

Yeah if you have to "patch" in an ending, you fucked up.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Back to the OP I think he would sacrifice Shireen. Its only a matter of time before he is convinced that he needs a Nisa Nisa and he probably doesnt love anyone else in the world.

You forgot Davos from Skagos.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Do I believe in King's blood? No. Do I believe in sacrificial blood magic? Yes.

Here is my opinion on the matter:

So Stannis's punishment for kinslaying is more kinslaying?

Not sure if I can agree with that logic.

I think Stannis would sacrifice himself before he sacrifices Shireen, he's the onle one of her 2 parents that actually loves her,

There's no real evidence in the book that Selyse doesn't care for her daughter.

I am sorry, but I do have to claim this theory as intellectual property :)

Stannis loves his daughter? I would call Stannis many names but caring father he isn't. He certainly loves his child but (1) with the opinion that she will die soon, and the quote "sacrifice is never easy", plus (2) his kinslaying record. It doesn't make sense? Actually it does. (3) If Melisandre makes him believe that he will save the world by killing her, what are the chances of him not listening to her?

1. Can I get a quote about this?

2. To be fair, Shireen probably isn't going to raise an army under the "fuck it, I wanna be queen" banner. Kind of a different situation.

3. Considering how much trouble he had with possibly sacrificing Edric, I would say the chances of him not listening to her is pretty good. I wouldn't say Stannis sacrificing Shireen is impossible, but I don't see it likely.

[Stormland's Fury]

2. To be fair, Shireen probably isn't going to raise an army under the "fuck it, I wanna be queen" banner. Kind of a different situation.

I don't think there's a specific quote that indicates this, but I wonder if GRRM writing some of the Dragonstone scenes gives an insight about their relationship that we didn't get in the books. I know, the show and books are different things, but still the author must have some insight.

Edit: i quoted the wrong part. My reply is obviously meant in regard to Selyse not caring about Shireen.

[Formerly Tetrarch42]

Oh damn, how could I not get it. Haven't played the game myself, but heard all about the shit storm concerning the ending and the DLC.

Yeah if you have to "patch" in an ending, you fucked up.

It gets even worse. The patch didn't fix anything, in fact, in my estimation it made things worse. But, that's a different topic for a different day.

Back on track: I really don't see a Shireen sacrifice anytime soon, I mean it's possible it will come out of left field - but inutiviely I just don't think it's likely at all.

[Mithras]

I think following the events after the Pink Letter, Melyse will burn Gerrick Kingsblood and his son out of desperation. Much later when Stannis returns and Dany shows up with her dragons, Melannis will go facepalm and they will decide to sacrifice Shireen too. However, Jon will come to save her this time.

[Waylin Stark]

Stannis is the kind who'd sacrifice himself in any way he knew would actually benefit Shireen.

But burning himself for R'hllor? Unlikely. He's still a bit skeptical of Mel's voodoo.

I totally see him sacrificing himself to kill Ramsay in the Battle in the Ice though.

I believe Stannis' army will win but he'll die.

When the Bolton and Frey forces have suffered a massive blow, the other Northern lords will turn their backs on them and maybe declare for Jon or Rickon.

[Stormland's Fury]

When the Bolton and Frey forces have suffered a massive blow, the other Northern lords will turn their backs on them and maybe declare for Jon or Rickon.

I think they will they suffer a blow as well.

Stannis made that remark that "would it be that all the traitors had but one neck", or something along those lines. Well, they're basically cooped up in one location right now.