[Spoilers All (I think? Sure)] Tattered Prince Identity

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

i have a really big crackpot that makes Aegon descendent of Brightflame/Blackfyre, and together with his natural targaryen blood, he IS the dragon with 3 (Targ/Blackfyre/Brightflame) heads.

But Brightflame was a nickname, whereas Targaryen and Blackfyre are separate houses. So Brightflames are actually Targaryens by name.

[Wmarshal]

Why does everone in this book need to be secretly alive or not who they say they is? Can't someone be dead and who they say their is?

[Blazfemur]

But Brightflame was a nickname, whereas Targaryen and Blackfyre are separate houses. So Brightflames are actually Targaryens by name.

oh i know, it's not a different bloodline, im aware. then again, blackfyres are 50% targ too, it's just another monicker. bastard names in of itself are monickers.

combining the three monickers? it'd be clever. it'd unite all elements of targaryen, the idea and concept of "my" Aegon. it would unite blacks, reds, greens, anything you could think of. for the realm. the existence, of "my" 3 headed aegon, is a perfect would-be scenario. he would be the "perfect" king, raised to fight, knowledgeable, knowing faiths, humble, and eventually, knowing the truth about where he's come from and descended from. all the inner struggles of house targaryen int he past that george has been building, the dances, the colors, the very existence of "my" Aegon would be proof that all their differences were put to rest.

[Blazfemur]

also, the family trees CAN add up to him being descendent, through aerion's son, going down, uniting with a blackfyre at some point, going down, to possible illyrio/serra, and then aegon. the stipulation of all blackfyres extinguished in male line would place illyrio descended from brightflame, serra descended from blackfyre, if there son is aegon, he'd unite all three monickers and have three heads.

it's crackpot, but the line DOES match up, as does the timelines, it theoretically COULD happen this way

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

also, the family trees CAN add up to him being descendent, through aerion's son, going down, uniting with a blackfyre at some point, going down, to possible illyrio/serra, and then aegon. the stipulation of all blackfyres extinguished in male line would place illyrio descended from brightflame, serra descended from blackfyre, if there son is aegon, he'd unite all three monickers and have three heads.

it's crackpot, but the line DOES match up, as does the timelines, it theoretically COULD happen this way

Aerions son would have been born around 231AC, Aegon in 282AC. That's 51 years in between, putting roughly 1 generation in between.

If you want to put Serra/Illyrio in there, either Serra or Illyrio would have to be a grandson of Aerions..

You could, with some effort, put 2 generations in between Aerions son and Aegon, but that would require three generations having had their first child around the age of 17.

[Blazfemur]

Aerions son would have been born around 231AC, Aegon in 282AC. That's 51 years in between, putting roughly 1 generation in between.

If you want to put Serra/Illyrio in there, either Serra or Illyrio would have to be a grandson of Aerions..

You could, with some effort, put 2 generations in between Aerions son and Aegon, but that would require three generations having had their first child around the age of 17.

well, the 51 years in between would be perfect for someone of illyrio's age id liek to think, right? it fits the cap perfectly. is his birth year listed on the wiki? (im at work right now otherwise id check)

[Crowford]

Brightflame is not only a nickname, though, it's a nickname associated with only one specific person. Daemon took the name Blackfyre and treated this as the foundation of a new dynasty - because Daemon was, in name, not a Targaryan. Being a bastard (and no one denied this, including himself), he did not belong to a house, and so he started a new one. Aerion on the other hand, was always Aerion Targaryan. "Brightflame" is no different from how Baelor was "Breakspear". Of course, it is true that Aerion, in exile and even more unhinged, could at some point have decided that he was now the founder of a new dynasty and that Aerion Brightflame was his full and only name. But then again, the same could be true for Aegor "Bittersteel" (who fought for Daemon, but of course never called himself Blackfyre).

I'd just find it strange that Aerion would be that much of a person of importance, in- and out-of-universe. Sure, he is a handy addition to the Valyrian gene pool in Essos, so I do think it's not unlikely that his child ended up married to a Blackfyre descendant. But the idea that this supposed Brightflame dynasty name, at best bestowed by a broken lunatic with no accomplishments in a delusion of grandeur, ends up as one of three metaphorical dragon heads, on the same level as Targaryan and Blackfyre, seems like a cop-out.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Aerions exile lasted only a few years, keep in mind ;)

[Sword of the Morgan]

It's a shame how some people choose to treat these forums. No names need be mentioned, but the fall from a high horse is a long way down.

[Logicsbane]

We will never see Gerion....he is important to ,A, Help establish Tywins character and Values as separate from ALL Lanisters, and ,B,to place importance/Value on Valyrian Steel. That has been accomplished, IMO.

[Good Guy Garlan]

He's just a scapegoat who refused to be, well, scaped. Isn't that enough?

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Why would Pentoshi choose a foreigner as their Prince? Also Gerion was last seen sailing due east not west.

[Lord Wraith]

If Gerion isn't dead then he could be the Shrouded Lord. Could be the reason he spared Tyrion but he's probably dead.

[spoon89]

Gerion was born in 255 according to Westerlands reading, and his bastard daughter was born about 288. So too young to be TTP (Windblown are around 30) and disappeared too recently to be TTP.

I don't recall if the Prince of Pentos must be from forty families. A Westerosi might not be eligible at all, unless someone is descended from a Westerosi who married into one of the Pentoshi families. I might be mixing Pentos up with Volantis, but I think Pentos had the forty families gimmick too.

WB was created around 30 years ago, he was already 23 at the Prince or Pentos deal, and he is described as well over 60. If he went straight to starting WB (which is not the case) he would be born around 247 AC, but if well over 60 is accurate (I don't remember whose impression or statement we get this from), he probably had to be someone born in the 230-240 AC range.

For crackpottery, that is somewhere in the timeframe of Aerion's infant son (not clear when Egg's unnamed third son was born). When was Tytos' brother Jason born (but he was still in Westeros at 9 and seemed to stick around and have a ton of kids)?

 

Gerion is the youngest of Tywin's siblings. Due to the entry below we know he would be forty five in 300AC.

 

TWoFaI: Westerlands

In 255 AC, Lord Tytos celebrated the birth of his fourth son at Casterly Rock, but his joy soon turned to sorrow. His beloved wife, the Lady Jeyne, never recovered from her labor, and died within a moon's turn of Gerion Lannister's birth. Her loss was a shattering blow to his lordship. From that day forth, no one ever again called him the Laughing Lion.

 

 

According to the back story of the Tattered Prince he is over sixty when we meet him in ADwD. So we know he is was born in either 238 or 239AC. From the entry below we get some confirmation of his back story and can determine that he was 23 or 24 years old when left Pentos.

 

TWoFaI: Pentos

The most recent and famous of these is the notorious sellsword captain called the Tattered Prince. As a youth, he was elected by the magisters of Pentos after a long drought and the execution of the previous prince in the year 262 AC. Rather than accept the honor, he fled the city, never to return. He sold his sword, taking part in battles in the Disputed Lands, then founded one of the newer free companies of the East, the Windblown.

 

I think that there is little chance that Gerion would try and pass himself off as the Tattered Prince, a man 15 years older than himself. I just don't see him pulling a dread pirate roberts.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

 
Gerion is the youngest of Tywin's siblings. Due to the entry below we know he would be forty five in 300AC.
 
TWoFaI: Westerlands
In 255 AC, Lord Tytos celebrated the birth of his fourth son at Casterly Rock, but his joy soon turned to sorrow. His beloved wife, the Lady Jeyne, never recovered from her labor, and died within a moon's turn of Gerion Lannister's birth. Her loss was a shattering blow to his lordship. From that day forth, no one ever again called him the Laughing Lion.
 
 
According to the back story of the Tattered Prince he is over sixty when we meet him in ADwD. So we know he is was born in either 238 or 239AC. From the entry below we get some confirmation of his back story and can determine that he was 23 or 24 years old when left Pentos.
 
TWoFaI: Pentos
The most recent and famous of these is the notorious sellsword captain called the Tattered Prince. As a youth, he was elected by the magisters of Pentos after a long drought and the execution of the previous prince in the year 262 AC. Rather than accept the honor, he fled the city, never to return. He sold his sword, taking part in battles in the Disputed Lands, then founded one of the newer free companies of the East, the Windblown.
 
I think that there is little chance that Gerion would try and pass himself off as the Tattered Prince, a man 15 years older than himself. I just don't see him pulling a dread pirate roberts.

'Over sixty' means he's 61 or older. It gives a minimum, not a possible range of only two years.

A Dance with Dragons tells us Tatters was 23 years old when he escaped Pentos, and twoiaf tells us that was in 262. Either Taters had turned 23 that year, or had been 23 turning 24, leaving him only two possible years of birth: 238 or 239 AC.

It's not only that it is unlikely that Gerion would try to look like a man 15 years older than he is, his entire appearance is different (Tatters has silver-grey hair, not Lannister golden).

[aryagonnakill#2]

TheBlackFlame,  Your not very intelligent are you?  As has been pointed out after your being upset at me, I was right and you were wrong, he left after Roberts rebellion just as I said.  Also, my 2 college degree's say your bad at reading people.

 

Also, look up how theories work for fucks sake, its really not complicated. 

 

 

Blazefemur,

 

You mention wondering why TTP was included with backstory and such, personally I think it might be really simple.  Dany needs a reason to go back to Pentos to confront Ilyrio, and now she has it since Barristan promised TTP Pentos.