Martin Teases TWOW in EW....

[The Human Abstract]

Is there any chance he's essentially writing both books at the same time?

I believe he is writing *into* the next book, which couldn't hurt. It's overly optimistic to think he's finishing both one stretch, though.

[dtones520]

For the record, when George remarked that he has slowed down over time I it merely sounded to me like a general statement of fact and not a declaration of struggles specific to TWOW. In fact, being the obsessive fan I am, I recall an interview not long ago in which he stated that so far the writing was going better on this particular book. I don't feel that from this little vignette it is safe to once again fly off the handle predicting doom and gloom and a 2018 release date.

I am simply floored, though, at the number of fans who have apparently hated everything the man's done in over a decade and yet who react extremely to every single little statement the guy makes. I have to say those types are even more obsessive than me, and I actually enjoy the man's work. It's... strange.

The problem is that George is on record in many interviews talking and, pretty much, bragging about the "truckloads of money" he is now making. Which is great, good for him, that is the American dream to come from nothing and make it big. The problem I have with it is that he doesn't seem to truly care about finishing his work, finishing his masterpiece. If he did he would be turning down all of these trips and promotional events that he is doing and he would sit down and lock himself in his writing room and get this series finished. Instead he is off in Europe bad mouthing fans who are fed up with his crap.

He clearly could write at a pace to put out 1000+ page books every 2-3 years from 1996-2000 when the first three of this series were released. And I'll even give him for the wait for AFFC, as he had the idea of the 5 year gap and realized that wasn't going to work, so he had to start over. But now it is ridiculous. Two books since the year 2000 and we are supposed to sit here and be okay with it? No, I'm sorry but I have given my hard earned money, along with millions of other people in order to make this guy rich beyond belief. The least he could do is show us a little gratitude and respect and maybe work a little bit harder.

And you guys can talk about "Well he needs a life too" blah, blah blah. I go to work from 9-5 every day, just like everyone else. I get 3 weeks of vacation a year and I can't afford to travel the world on a whim, let alone have the majority of my trips paid for. I'll never dream of making the money George has made on the backs of me and all of his long term readers, and new readers for that matter. Like I said before, screw him and his ego.

And it's sad that I feel this way, as I truly do love this series and this world that he created. I've just slowly learned who George RR Martin truly is and I don't like it.

[schoolbook]

Hi, have been a lurker here for some months. Amazed at the knowledge and speculation of people here I didn't feel I had anything to contribute till now but here goes:

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

"George R.R. Martin is not working for you."

"You're complaining about George doing other things than writing the books you want to read as if your buying the first look in the series was a contract with him: that you would pay over your ten dollars, and George for his part would spend every waking hour until the series was done, writing the rest of the books for you.

No such contract existed. You were paying your ten dollars for the book you were reading, and I assume that you enjoyed it because you want to know what happens next."

Although I agree with Gaiman here, I can easily empathize with people waiting eagerly. I am, although I started reading the books a little more than a year ago and I can only begin to imagine the feelings of readers since the 90's. However, the fact remains: you paid for the books, not future books so you're not GRRM:s employer.

[GERM]

Hi, have been a lurker here for some months. Amazed at the knowledge and speculation of people here I didn't feel I had anything to contribute till now but here goes:

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

"George R.R. Martin is not working for you."

"You're complaining about George doing other things than writing the books you want to read as if your buying the first look in the series was a contract with him: that you would pay over your ten dollars, and George for his part would spend every waking hour until the series was done, writing the rest of the books for you.

No such contract existed. You were paying your ten dollars for the book you were reading, and I assume that you enjoyed it because you want to know what happens next."

Although I agree with Gaiman here, I can easily empathize with people waiting eagerly. I am, although I started reading the books a little more than a year ago and I can only begin to imagine the feelings of readers since the 90's. However, the fact remains: you paid for the books, not future books so you're not GRRM:s employer.

I am tired of that card being played. Here's one for you, with links to other best-selling authors agreeing.

http://www.alanbaxteronline.com/writers-bitches-investment-readers/

Many authors tend to disagree with Mr. Neil up there, and with just cause too. Maybe you guys should also pick a better poster child than Neil Gaiman too. Lol. The guy would probably said the same thing to his mother when he was 10.

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/blog/brent-weeks-opinion-column-george-rr-martin-is-not-your-bitch/

Here's another one.

[sj4iy]

Oh, FGS. Martin can do whatever he wants, it's his story. He sold the rights for a crap ton of money- who wouldn't have in his situation? Getting older and you finally write a hit that people want to produce to your specifications...I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't do the same. Then he hits it bigger than he ever imagined, and suddenly has more claims on his time. Maybe his work ethic isn't the same as other authors, but that his prerogative.

Personally, I don't care how fast or slow he's working...I will watch the show in the meantime then enjoy the books as they come out, if they do. I will get the ending somehow, which is all I want. If Martin wanted to retire tomorrow and never write another word, I honestly couldn't blame him. I would be a bit sad, but I'd think "hey, we will still get an ending," and I'd get over it. I don't expect things to happen or think he has any obligations to me or any other fan.

My favorite modern author, Terry Pratchett, is dying from a form Alzheimer's, and he has had success, but not half as much as Martin has. He never stopped writing, and has released at least one a year. But the time is coming when we will get no more, and that is a day I will truly be upset. Martin doesn't have anything like that looming over him, so there's that much.

[GERM]

Oh, FGS. Martin can do whatever he wants, it's his story. He sold the rights for a crap ton of money- who wouldn't have in his situation? Getting older and you finally write a hit that people want to produce to your specifications...I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't do the same. Then he hits it bigger than he ever imagined, and suddenly has more claims on his time. Maybe his work ethic isn't the same as other authors, but that his prerogative.

Personally, I don't care how fast or slow he's working...I will watch the show in the meantime then enjoy the books as they come out, if they do. I will get the ending somehow, which is all I want. If Martin wanted to retire tomorrow and never write another word, I honestly couldn't blame him. I would be a bit sad, but I'd think "hey, we will still get an ending," and I'd get over it. I don't expect things to happen or think he has any obligations to me or any other fan.

My favorite modern author, Terry Pratchett, is dying from a form Alzheimer's, and he has had success, but not half as much as Martin has. He never stopped writing, and has released at least one a year. But the time is coming when we will get no more, and that is a day I will truly be upset. Martin doesn't have anything like that looming over him, so there's that much.

I like Pratchett and was sad to hear of his plight myself. He is a good author and I enjoy his books. At least he worked hard. Like Jordan. No one can fault either of them for care or concern regarding their creations. They were diligent and dedicated.

As far as Martin, you're right that he can do whatever he wants, and if you choose to not be disappointed in him, that's your choice. Millions of readers will disagree though. I am happy he found success in the apex of his life, but he has proven to me that he didn't deserve it based on his character alone.

I can list off a hundred great authors who have risen to the challenge set before them. Brandon Sanderson is the top of that list. He not only took the reins of a gift horse, but he hitched a team of work horses to it and plowed a field.

I started watching the show simply to get the ending from it. I am confident I'll have it in a few years, and I can stop buying his books. I sincerely hope others do the same. It would drive home a point.

That being said, I never brought personal health into this debate and I never will. If he dies, he dies. That's life. His work ethic is keeping him from finishing these books, not his health.

[sj4iy]

I like Pratchett and was sad to hear of his plight myself. He is a good author and I enjoy his books. At least he worked hard. Like Jordan. No one can fault either of them for care or concern regarding their creations. They were diligent and dedicated.

As far as Martin, you're right that he can do whatever he wants, and if you choose to not be disappointed in him, that's your choice. Millions of readers will disagree though. I am happy he found success in the apex of his life, but he has proven to me that he didn't deserve it based on his character alone.

I can list off a hundred great authors who have risen to the challenge set before them. Brandon Sanderson is the top of that list. He not only took the reins of a gift horse, but he hitched a team of work horses to it and plowed a field.

I started watching the show simply to get the ending from it. I am confident I'll have it in a few years, and I can stop buying his books. I sincerely hope others do the same. It would drive home a point.

That being said, I never brought personal health into this debate and I never will. If he dies, he dies. That's life. His work ethic is keeping him from finishing these books, not his health.

I would be disappointed, too...that's natural. What gets me is when people feel entitled. We aren't entitled to anything at all. Nothing. We gave him our money for work done- that doesn't create an implied contract for work not finished.

Some people do bring up his age and health...I was simply pointing out that being old and fat is not an affliction, and that there are real diseases afflicting real authors that give me greater concern than Martin.

[Cas Stark]

The evidence doesn't support a problem with his work ethic, if that were the case, we would have seen books that had more action, he would have gone back to GOT style prose, packing a lot of information into a few pages, so he can work less, and deliver more. Instead, we got the opposite, hundreds and hundreds of pages that go nowhere, new POVs for seemingly no purpose to the story except that GRRM wrote them and became attached to them, two books that only move a handful of POVs forward in any meaningful way....the rest are dangling around, traveling around, hanging around, doing what they've been doing pretty much since Storm of Swords. That to me is not a guy who is lazy, but a guy who is lost.

He procrastinates in my opinion because he has lost something in regard to his story, his sense of what he wants to say, where he wants it to go, why he was writing it in the first place, or has even changed his mind about where he wants to end it.

[bent branch]

I am tired of that card being played. Here's one for you, with links to other best-selling authors agreeing.

http://www.alanbaxteronline.com/writers-bitches-investment-readers/

Many authors tend to disagree with Mr. Neil up there, and with just cause too. Maybe you guys should also pick a better poster child than Neil Gaiman too. Lol. The guy would probably said the same thing to his mother when he was 10.

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/blog/brent-weeks-opinion-column-george-rr-martin-is-not-your-bitch/

Here's another one.

The point made in these two articles about people's reluctance to buy into a book series based on the failure of some series being completed is a good one. I also refuse to start another series that hasn't been completed. At one point I was stuck with three different series that hadn't been completed. I finally got lucky and one was completed. However, I am not young and have no desire to get stuck waiting for some other author to get around to completing their story. Eventually, there will be more and more people like me who refuse to begin a series until it is complete. When this happens we will see the end of the multipart series (unless the author has the completed series at the time of sale). This won't be the first time a literary style has pretty much died. Serialized stories were at one point quite popular and some authors that are now considered amongst the greats wrote in this manner (Charles Dickens).

So, who gets hurt when this happens? I'd say the writers. The way things stand now, if a writer can sell a series they are guaranteed a market for the rest of their books as long as the first one sells well. This gives the author more freedom to simply write rather than worrying about how they will make a living. I, for one, believe that GRRM has every intention of completing his series. I think he would be the person most disappointed if he doesn't complete it. However, it is much easier to never start a series than to wait for its completion. So, gradually, uncompleted series will not find enough takers to make them economical. And young writers will be all the poorer for it.

[kiasyd]

The evidence doesn't support a problem with his work ethic, if that were the case, we would have seen books that had more action, he would have gone back to GOT style prose, packing a lot of information into a few pages, so he can work less, and deliver more. Instead, we got the opposite, hundreds and hundreds of pages that go nowhere, new POVs for seemingly no purpose to the story except that GRRM wrote them and became attached to them, two books that only move a handful of POVs forward in any meaningful way....the rest are dangling around, traveling around, hanging around, doing what they've been doing pretty much since Storm of Swords. That to me is not a guy who is lazy, but a guy who is lost.

He procrastinates in my opinion because he has lost something in regard to his story, his sense of what he wants to say, where he wants it to go, why he was writing it in the first place, or has even changed his mind about where he wants to end it.

That is a disturbing thought - it's my fear as well... However, I have some hope that the closure that has been set up so far - glanced in most of fan speculations (R+L=J, GNC, etc.) seems to imply a good literary closure. Nonetheless, procrastination seems to be the keyword here...

I think tWoW will be the turning point where it will be obvious where the whole series is going - if it ever gets published.

A couple of years ago, I was predicting that the series would be cancelled after catching up with the events of aSoS due to escalation in production costs. This is clearly not the case anymore with the huge success of the last seasons, so this wild theory now turns into my greatest fear: that the books could be purposefully postponed in favor of the main medium shifting to the TV show.

[Cas Stark]

That is a disturbing thought - it's my fear as well... However, I have some hope that the closure that has been set up so far - glanced in most of fan speculations (R+L=J, GNC, etc.) seems to imply a good literary closure. Nonetheless, procrastination seems to be the keyword here...

I think tWoW will be the turning point where it will be obvious where the whole series is going - if it ever gets published.

A couple of years ago, I was predicting that the series would be cancelled after catching up with the events of aSoS due to escalation in production costs. This is clearly not the case anymore with the huge success of the last seasons, so this wild theory now turns into my greatest fear: that the books could be purposefully postponed in favor of the main medium shifting to the TV show.

I don't believe he is purposely postponing them either, because we saw only a few months ago he was floating all kinds of wacky ideas for how the show could stretch itself out...running for 10 years....and some of his other very strange suggestions, especially strange coming from someone with a lot of TV experience. To me, that sounded like a guy who was desperate to get himself more time.....

Now he sort of sounds as if he's made peace with the idea of the show overtaking his story...but that again doesn't seem to have caused any type of double down...but he's giving himself another set of breathers.

I'd have to check but from the time he delivered the final manuscript they would still need about 6 months to copy edit it and print it, maybe less time, I'm not sure, which means to get it out by late 2015 it needs to be done, completed in the next 8 or 9 months. Not sure I see that happening.

[Hodor!!!]

I'd have to check but from the time he delivered the final manuscript they would still need about 6 months to copy edit it and print it, maybe less time, I'm not sure, which means to get it out by late 2015 it needs to be done, completed in the next 8 or 9 months. Not sure I see that happening.

Martin's editor said in an interview that the editing process only takes her two weeks. So I think the time between Martin handing in his final draft and publication is significantly shorter than 6 months.

Although in my opinion, judging from his last two books, a few more weeks of editing would definitely be worth the additional wait.

[sj4iy]

Martin's editor said in an interview that the editing process only takes her two weeks. So I think the time between Martin handing in his final draft and publication is significantly shorter than 6 months.

Although in my opinion, judging from his last two books, a few more weeks of editing would definitely be worth the additional wait.

Isn't it also edited as he goes along? So it doesn't need a ton of it after the final draft, I would think.

[kiasyd]

I don't believe he is purposely postponing them either, because we saw only a few months ago he was floating all kinds of wacky ideas for how the show could stretch itself out...running for 10 years....and some of his other very strange suggestions, especially strange coming from someone with a lot of TV experience. To me, that sounded like a guy who was desperate to get himself more time.....

Now he sort of sounds as if he's made peace with the idea of the show overtaking his story...but that again doesn't seem to have caused any type of double down...but he's giving himself another set of breathers.

I'd have to check but from the time he delivered the final manuscript they would still need about 6 months to copy edit it and print it, maybe less time, I'm not sure, which means to get it out by late 2015 it needs to be done, completed in the next 8 or 9 months. Not sure I see that happening.

Yeah, I agree with your assessment. Regardless, the whole affair is detrimental to the experience. Until a couple of years ago I was recommending the book series to all my friends left and right (the ones that enjoy reading good fiction anyway). Nowdays, I just tell them to stick to the TV show and go for the books after the it's published in its entirety. :(

[Cas Stark]

Yeah, I agree with your assessment. Regardless, the whole affair is detrimental to the experience. Until a couple of years ago I was recommending the book series to all my friends left and right (the ones that enjoy reading good fiction anyway). Nowdays, I just tell them to stick to the TV show and go for the books after the it's published in its entirety. :(

Sigh. The other thing is, the history of long, drawn out multi-book series isn't very good, is it? They have a tendency to spin out of control, start strong, then somehow, get muddled and crazy and end with a whimper not a bang. Dune. The Dark Tower. The Wheel of Time. Oh well, it is what it is. I'm only happy I jumped on the bandwagon only in 2011, instead of back in the 90s, can't imagine if I had read these books as they came out in real time.

[Hodor!!!]

Isn't it also edited as he goes along? So it doesn't need a ton of it after the final draft, I would think.

To my knowledge Martin's editor gets the final draft when Martin thinks it's done and before that she only gets to see about 150 pages that Martin is contracted to send her in order to get his advance.

You honestly don't believe that Martin's last books actually DID need of ton of editing, that would considerably improved those works? I certainly do.

[Cas Stark]

To my knowledge Martin's editor gets the final draft when Martin thinks it's done and before that she only gets to see about 150 pages that Martin is contracted to send her in order to get his advance.

You honestly don't believe that Martin's last books actually DID need of ton of editing, that would considerably improved those works? I certainly do.

Yeah, like at least a month spent on editing if not more....but then I am still mystified as to why or how he was able to talk his editor/publisher into the really, really bad idea of how he chose to split the two books. I can't understand how anyone in their right mind thought this was a good idea on any level.

[Hodor!!!]

Yeah, like at least a month spent on editing if not more....but then I am still mystified as to why or how he was able to talk his editor/publisher into the really, really bad idea of how he chose to split the two books. I can't understand how anyone in their right mind thought this was a good idea on any level.

Easy. Two books make more money than one, even if the one is better.

[kiasyd]

Easy. Two books make more money than one, even if the one is better.

I don't think Feast-Dragon would have a feasible binding. Cas Stark is talking about character-split chosen over the chronological-split.

[sj4iy]

To my knowledge Martin's editor gets the final draft when Martin thinks it's done and before that she only gets to see about 150 pages that Martin is contracted to send her in order to get his advance.

You honestly don't believe that Martin's last books actually DID need of ton of editing, that would considerably improved those works? I certainly do.

I'm not sure if you do or don't think they need a lot of editing...personally, I think both books should have been cut considerably and recombined. Then we would have had a worthy follow-up to ASoS. I just meant that I thought he was contractually obligated to send in his work in increments for editing...maybe I misunderstood.

But AFFC sucked ass.