Martin Teases TWOW in EW....

[Elessar]

Is GERM secretly Terry Goodkind?

[GERM]

Is GERM secretly Terry Goodkind?

Martin writes too slow to be Goodkind, lol.

[Ygritte]

One 700, one 800 and one 1,000-page book from 1991 to 2000, I think you mean. AGoT didn't flash into existence fully-formed in August 1996, and took five years to produce itself.

This is an excellent point. A lot of times the first few books in a series can be released in pretty quick succession...because the author already wrote them (or at least heavily planned and partially wrote them) behind the scenes so we weren't privy to the amount of time they took.

[The Human Abstract]

Werthead is correct. He's slowed down. But not that much. He simply is slow. And he simply also writes massive books.

[Hodor!!!]

That is not the editor's job. The editor's job is to suggest changes to improve the book. If the author agrees, the changes happen. If the author disagrees, they don't. For a newbie author at the start of his career, the editor has all the power. For the multi-million selling celebrity super-author, they have relatively little. In fact, GRRM is unusual in how much he does listen to his editor for an author of his success.

Yes, cutting unnessary stuff, or - you know - editing is absolutely the editor's job.

As you wrote, normally editors can make changes, even if it is against the author's will. They don't usually do that, because it's not a good work relationship.

You are also right in that Martin has an unusual star status that allows him to not really have an editor anymore, but I don't think that's a good thing.

[GERM]

This is an excellent point. A lot of times the first few books in a series can be released in pretty quick succession...because the author already wrote them (or at least heavily planned and partially wrote them) behind the scenes so we weren't privy to the amount of time they took.

Not really, he thought of the idea in 1991, and worked on it a bit and stopped completely to work on Doorways. He didn't start writing ASOIAF until August 1993, after ABC announced it wouldn't pick up the show.

He has spoken about this.

[Werthead]

As you wrote, normally editors can make changes, even if it is against the author's will.

No, they can't. If they say pointblank, "Change this," and the author says, "No," then there's not much they can do. They can refuse to publish the book, but if they've already paid the author thousands of dollars as an advance they won't see a return on it, and the author can sue them for breach of contract. Steven Erikson and Terry Goodkind, even as relatively small-time starting-out authors, both refused to let editors really touch their work and neither could be budged even at the very start of their careers before they hit the big time (which happened a lot faster for Goodkind than Erikson).

About twenty years ago this happened between Joan Collins and her publishers. Collins handed in a book that was such utter shite (even compared to her normal blockbuster crap) that the only way her publishers could get out of refusing to release it and suffering legal action was to pre-emptively sue her for deliberately taking the piss and trying to sabotage her - and their - own success. It was unprecedented in publishing history, and hasn't been repeated since because it's an extraordinarily dangerous tactic for a publisher to take.

This is an excellent point. A lot of times the first few books in a series can be released in pretty quick succession...because the author already wrote them (or at least heavily planned and partially wrote them) behind the scenes so we weren't privy to the amount of time they took.

Well, in this case we are because GRRM's spoken about it, a lot. AGoT-ACoK-ASoS were supposed to be one 700-page novel, and instead turned into a 2,500-odd page monster that he wrote over nine years (the bulk of it over seven), splitting the sections off as the page count got too big and not written in order (for example, Tyrion's entire ASoS storyline was written before ACoK was even published). As said above, they were written more quickly than now, but not as much as you might expect given the publication dates.

[Ygritte]

Not really, he thought of the idea in 1991, and worked on it a bit and stopped completely to work on Doorways. He didn't start writing ASOIAF until August 1993, after ABC announced it wouldn't pick up the show.

He has spoken about this.

Even then, that's three years of brainstorming and three years of writing.

[Hodor!!!]

No, they can't. If they say pointblank, "Change this," and the author says, "No," then there's not much they can do.

Yes, they can. I know because I am an author and have actually signed one of those contracts where it explicitly says that the publishing house can change basically everything.

[Cas Stark]

Yes, they can. I know because I am an author and have actually signed one of those contracts where it explicitly says that the publishing house can change basically everything.

Once you get to be a best selling, high status author though it isn't the same situation. Do you really think Stephen King's editor overules him? Or that any editor is going to rewrite GRRM and tell him to stuff it?

He would benefit TREMENDOUSLY from a more hard hitting editor who stood his/her ground more and tried harder to make cuts, but the idea that the editor is going to overrule him at this stage of his career is not realistic.

[Hodor!!!]

Once you get to be a best selling, high status author though it isn't the same situation. Do you really think Stephen King's editor overules him? Or that any editor is going to rewrite GRRM and tell him to stuff it?

He would benefit TREMENDOUSLY from a more hard hitting editor who stood his/her ground more and tried harder to make cuts, but the idea that the editor is going to overrule him at this stage of his career is not realistic.

This is exactly what I was saying.

[Werthead]

Yes, they can. I know because I am an author and have actually signed one of those contracts where it explicitly says that the publishing house can change basically everything.

That would be a remarkable contract, and not like anything I've ever seen before in a decade and more of studying (and being part of, tangentially) the publishing business. If anything, contracts are becoming looser and looser as self-publishing and e-publishing advances and gives the author far more power than ever before.

Non-fiction and especially technical and academic book contracts are more like that, but that's because the author is far less important, and there's usually quite a few writers who could do the same thing, so the writer is far less unique.

[Hodor!!!]

That would be a remarkable contract, and not like anything I've ever seen before in a decade and more of studying (and being part of, tangentially) the publishing business. If anything, contracts are becoming looser and looser as self-publishing and e-publishing advances and gives the author far more power than ever before.

Non-fiction and especially technical and academic book contracts are more like that, but that's because the author is far less important, and there's usually quite a few writers who could do the same thing, so the writer is far less unique.

It is a standard contract according to my agent who has seen a lot of them. But it actually is non-fiction. I disagree about the author being less important here, but that is another issue.

My publisher can per contract change everything in theory against my will, but my agent says that this never actually happens. What they actually can NOT do is refuse to publish it, if they don't like it, they are contracted to publish it in a certain timeframe.

[Cas Stark]

This is exactly what I was saying.

I must have misunderstood you then.

Oh well, it doesn't matter anyway, because clearly he doesn't have the kind of editor that takes a stand and says

"You know, George, this whole new one-off POV thing isn't such a great idea, maybe you should try incorporating those elements in an existing POV...like this...."

"You know, George, everyone loves world building, but I wonder, if we might look at trimming a little off the food lists, and perhaps we could condense some of this Brienne traveling....and some of the Tyrion traveling?"

'Are you sure you want to end your book on a cliffhanger, since you've used this already several times"?

"You know, George, your fans who have waited six years since Swords might be very disappointed not to get a single thing about Jon, Tyrion or Dany, you know, the three central characters".

God forbid if the last two books are the result of an editor who battled hard for less filler and better flow.

[Deadwood]

I would think the sheer scope of having to maintain the logical connections (to allow all the subtext and hidden plots) makes the editing epic.

[Hodor!!!]

I must have misunderstood you then.

Oh well, it doesn't matter anyway, because clearly he doesn't have the kind of editor that takes a stand and says

"You know, George, this whole new one-off POV thing isn't such a great idea, maybe you should try incorporating those elements in an existing POV...like this...."

"You know, George, everyone loves world building, but I wonder, if we might look at trimming a little off the food lists, and perhaps we could condense some of this Brienne traveling....and some of the Tyrion traveling?"

'Are you sure you want to end your book on a cliffhanger, since you've used this already several times"?

"You know, George, your fans who have waited six years since Swords might be very disappointed not to get a single thing about Jon, Tyrion or Dany, you know, the three central characters".

God forbid if the last two books are the result of an editor who battled hard for less filler and better flow.

I totally agree!

[sj4iy]

I would think the sheer scope of having to maintain the logical connections (to allow all the subtext and hidden plots) makes the editing epic.

I remember reading that his editor was trying to get him to stop adding so much to Jon's POV in ADWD and to just cut it off, but he refused so that he could end it on Jon's assassination attempt. So it's fair to say that she's trying.

[Deadwood]

I remember reading that his editor was trying to get him to stop adding so much to Jon's POV in ADWD and to just cut it off, but he refused so that he could end it on Jon's assassination attempt. So it's fair to say that she's trying.

I bet they have a great relationship. :D

[Elessar]

GERM, I was talking about you. Are you secretly TG? All your pronouncements about what you're entitled to because of "life" just made me wonder.

[GERM]

GERM, I was talking about you. Are you secretly TG? All your pronouncements about what you're entitled to because of "life" just made me wonder.

Oh, lol.

I read GRRM instead of GERM. I apologize.

One would think that Terry Goodkind wouldn't be the type of man to anonymously post on a ASOIAF fan site.