Martin Teases TWOW in EW....

[GERM]

I still don't get where you think any of that gives you the right to expect another human being to do something for you. What higher power or ability were you born with that makes you able to assert your will on GRRM to write books you want him to write?

Again, you seem to completely ignore expectation from everything I said. I have a right to expect GRRM to write at a reasonable pace. I bought into that "right" when I invested in him as a writer. He gave me that expectation himself. Not write what I want at a reasonable pace, but write. He doesn't even write. There is nothing unreasonable about this stand.

Just like it is right to ignore what I am saying.

At the end of the day, however, I can assert anything I want on anyone. It is my right to do so. Just like it is your right to stop me. That is the unreasonable take on what I am saying. However, just because it is unreasonable, doesn't make it wrong.

[Cas Stark]

I still don't get where you think any of that gives you the right to expect another human being to do something for you. What higher power or ability were you born with that makes you able to assert your will on GRRM to write books you want him to write?

I expect him to finish the series, he says he intends to, he says he is working toward it, he says he has a plan for it. He has set my expectation that he will finish the series, himself, by his own words.

Whether he "owes" it to me to fulfill this expectation is something else, the same as whether I have a "right" to the work product of his creativity, which of course I do not. But I have a right to expect him to do what he said he would do. If he fails to finish the series then I will be reasonably disappointed that he failed in his stated intentions to do so, because he is the one who set up the expectation in the first place.

[GERM]

I expect him to finish the series, he says he intends to, he says he is working toward it, he says he has a plan for it. He has set my expectation that he will finish the series, himself, by his own words.

Whether he "owes" it to me to fulfill this expectation is something else, the same as whether I have a "right" to the work product of his creativity, which of course I do not. But I have a right to expect him to do what he said he would do. If he fails to finish the series then I will be reasonably disappointed that he failed in his stated intentions to do so, because he is the one who set up the expectation in the first place.

This goes hand in hand with what Baxter and Weeks said about a writers obligation.

[mormont]

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to hope, expect, or believe that GRRM will finish the series, given his public statements that he intends to. I do feel that saying you have a right, or ability, or whatever, to have that belief is rather banal and contributes nothing of substance to the conversation.

Ultimately, GRRM is the writer. What we believe about his obligations is a sideshow. What he believes about them is what matters. He's clear that he intends to finish the series, so that's sort of where the conversation ends. We can all feel what we like about it, but all our collected opinions on the topic won't put another word on the page.

[GERM]

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to hope, expect, or believe that GRRM will finish the series, given his public statements that he intends to. I do feel that saying you have a right, or ability, or whatever, to have that belief is rather banal and contributes nothing of substance to the conversation.

Ultimately, GRRM is the writer. What we believe about his obligations is a sideshow. What he believes about them is what matters. He's clear that he intends to finish the series, so that's sort of where the conversation ends. We can all feel what we like about it, but all our collected opinions on the topic won't put another word on the page.

I agree. I wasn't arguing for contribution purposes, I was making a point. People can't tell me what I have a right to expect or not to expect. That's all. Lol.

I don't think the argument actually accomplishes anything though.

[sj4iy]

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to hope, expect, or believe that GRRM will finish the series, given his public statements that he intends to. I do feel that saying you have a right, or ability, or whatever, to have that belief is rather banal and contributes nothing of substance to the conversation.

Ultimately, GRRM is the writer. What we believe about his obligations is a sideshow. What he believes about them is what matters. He's clear that he intends to finish the series, so that's sort of where the conversation ends. We can all feel what we like about it, but all our collected opinions on the topic won't put another word on the page.

Pretty much this. Personally, I would be a bit sad if he didn't, but it wouldn't be that big of a deal in the long run. We have the show and I'm perfectly content to have the show's ending if we get nothing else book-wise.

[GERM]

Pretty much this. Personally, I would be a bit sad if he didn't, but it wouldn't be that big of a deal in the long run. We have the show and I'm perfectly content to have the show's ending if we get nothing else book-wise.

I wouldn't be perfectly content, I would be satisfied though. It definitely is closure, just not the closure I would want.

[Red Rollo]

First off, it isn't objectivism. I am not dealing with the pursuit of one's happiness or even touching on someone's moral purpose in life. What I am talking about has nothing to do with Ayn Rand, and I am the furthest thing from a liberal you can find.

I haven't read this in any book, nor adopted any philosophical viewings from a third party.

With that being said, I could write a book on this. Not necessarily a good one, but a book nonetheless, lol.

Let's take this back to the beginning. You don't even have to believe in God; even Hawking admits that at some point in the formation of the universe, there had to be some form of higher consciousness. So let's pre-suppose that there was some form of intelligent designer, where did he get his right to act? Nature gave it to him by providing him with the ability.

For you Christians, Adam and Eve. What gave them the right to eat the apple and break God's command? By giving man free will, he gave them the ability to do it. That ability behest a right. They control their actions, and through that control, they're entitled to them.

Whether that control was given to us by some intelligent designer or we took it in some genetic lottery matters not. It's ours to do what we want with it.

Let's say some monarch is sitting over you, and he decrees you can no longer use your right arm for anything. Is it your right to disobey him? Is it your right to obey him? Is it your right to resist enforcement of the law?

Yes.

If you say no, come live in a country I rule over :cool4:

Is it your right to only disobey if it is a morally questionable law? No. Your actions are yours to do what you will with them. If someone else exercises his rights to stop you, that is his right. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction (unless we're dealing with quantum mechanics) but every action you have is your birth right. I can't mentally force you to not move your arm. You have to make that decision on your own.

So, you're saying everything has the right to do anything. George has the right to live his life as he sees fit. You have the right to complain about it Others have the right to disagree with you. You have the right to disagree with them, and so on, and so on. It's all just an endless cycle of meaninglessness,

[GERM]

So, you're saying everything has the right to do anything. George has the right to live his life as he sees fit. You have the right to complain about it Others have the right to disagree with you. You have the right to disagree with them, and so on, and so on. It's all just an endless cycle of meaninglessness,

That sounds like something we all experience. Life maybe...

Besides, what do you do and why do you do it? It is your right to do so. Is your life meaningless? I certainly believe it has meaning for you.

[Red Rollo]

I expect him to finish the series, he says he intends to, he says he is working toward it, he says he has a plan for it. He has set my expectation that he will finish the series, himself, by his own words.

Whether he "owes" it to me to fulfill this expectation is something else, the same as whether I have a "right" to the work product of his creativity, which of course I do not. But I have a right to expect him to do what he said he would do. If he fails to finish the series then I will be reasonably disappointed that he failed in his stated intentions to do so, because he is the one who set up the expectation in the first place.

If he fails to finish the series, it will mean he's dead, and my greatest disappointment will be that the world has lost a creative genius, not that I don't get to finish a freaking book series.

[GERM]

If he fails to finish the series, it will mean he's dead, and my greatest disappointment will be that the world has lost a creative genius, not that I don't get to finish a freaking book series.

It will mean he's dead and his dying will be sad, I agree.

However, the completion of the series is separate from that now. If he wrote as consistently these past 14 years as he did the first 6, the series would be finished.

[Cas Stark]

If he fails to finish the series, it will mean he's dead, and my greatest disappointment will be that the world has lost a creative genius, not that I don't get to finish a freaking book series.

No offense, but that doesn't make sense. You only know he's a 'creative genius' because of the books, and the series is his legacy, so if he fails to finish it, that mean his most important artistic work would be incomplete, the legacy of his creative genius would go uncompleted and unfulfilled. The "freaking book series" is what his creative genius is all about, failing to finish it means he fails at his own most important, ambitious artistic goal.

[GERM]

No offense, but that doesn't make sense. You only know he's a 'creative genius' because of the books, and the series is his legacy, so if he fails to finish it, that mean his most important artistic work would be incomplete, the legacy of his creative genius would go uncompleted and unfulfilled.

You can't always say that. Jordan, for example, was dying for 5 to 6 years and still managed to publish 3 books while dying. He was taken too early but worked his damnedest to finish the stories for his readers. He spent his last 4 days on his deathbed dictating the ending.

That is how I will remember Robert Jordan.

He earned that fond remembrance.

Every person dictates how they're remembered. Tolkien for example was known as a passionate author but as a present but absent father by his own children.

[Red Rollo]

That sounds like something we all experience. Life maybe...

Besides, what do you do and why do you do it? It is your right to do so. Is your life meaningless? I certainly believe it has meaning for you.

My life does hold meaning tor me, but, then again, I don't buy into your construct that ability = right.

[Cas Stark]

You can't always say that. Jordan, for example, was dying for 5 to 6 years and still managed to publish 3 books while dying. He was taken too early but worked his damnedest to finish the stories for his readers. He spent his last 4 days on his deathbed dictating the ending.

That is how I will remember Robert Jordan.

He earned that fond remembrance.

Every person dictates how they're remembered. Tolkien for example was known as a passionate author but as a present but absent father by his own children.

Jordan's series also got away from him, though. The same with Dune. They spun out of control, just like A Song of Ice and Fire appears to be doing, and the authors get lost in the details of the world they created and get sidetracked on interesting but ultimately secondary stories and then...

I know you believe GRRM lacks a proper work ethic, and while I agree he is procrastinating, I feel that I don't have enough info. and probably never will, to know the reason why, there seems to have been such a marked change everything, speed, quality, mode of work...since he finished Storm of Swords that I feel it must be more than simply age or all of a sudden getting lazy, though of course a man in his 40s is going to be a different person than a man in his 60s and will almost by definition have different priorities.

[GERM]

Jordan's series also got away from him, though. The same with Dune. They spun out of control, just like A Song of Ice and Fire appears to be doing, and the authors get lost in the details of the world they created and get sidetracked on interesting but ultimately secondary stories and then...

I know you believe GRRM lacks a proper work ethic, and while I agree he is procrastinating, I feel that I don't have enough info. and probably never will, to know the reason why, there seems to have been such a marked change everything, speed, quality, mode of work...since he finished Storm of Swords that I feel it must be more than simply age or all of a sudden getting lazy, though of course a man in his 40s is going to be a different person than a man in his 60s and will almost by definition have different priorities.

Jordan's series may have gotten away from him, but he still published a book every 18 months. I don't really think Martin's story has gotten out of control, I think he has no self-control.

After all is said and done, you can't blame a man who has struggled 40 years to become any sort of success for having some fun, but he shouldn't be surprised when people get upset at him.

[Red Rollo]

If he doesn't finish the series, I'll eat my hat, as is my right.

[GERM]

My life does hold meaning tor me, but, then again, I don't buy into your construct that ability = right.

You have the ability to walk, breathe and think. Are you telling me you don't have the right to do so? Or does someone get to tell you you're allowed to do it?

[GERM]

If he doesn't finish the series, I'll eat my hat, as is my right.

PERFECT!

[ApKing06]

I'm not sure if you do or don't think they need a lot of editing...personally, I think both books should have been cut considerably and recombined. Then we would have had a worthy follow-up to ASoS. I just meant that I thought he was contractually obligated to send in his work in increments for editing...maybe I misunderstood.

But AFFC sucked ass.

"Sucked Ass" really? WOW! thats harsh! I certainly think you have a right to your opinion and there are things to bitch about. Alot of the main characters were left out and we ended up doing alot of traveling with the minor ones. considering the time between books, thats not cool. There was a very long wait to find out what characters like Tyrion and Dany were up to.

i enjoyed for the places the story brought us that up until then were just names on a map or places characters mentioned where something happened. I also think when this saga is finally complete alot of people will want to re-read AFFC. it will be a major source of info for a lot of the major plot point conclusions. For that point alone, i would not want any of it cut at all.

I wonder, would you still want it cut if AFFC and DWD were combined and AFFC was the 1st half of both books? would that of made a difference?