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Joffrey's cruelty


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#1 willofDorne

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:45 PM

It's no secret that joffrey is big on public humiliation and cruelty, but, where does he get it from?

 

Examples:

 

1. Publically humilate's Sansa

2. Makes Sansa look at disgusting things

3. Murders and torchers whores

4. Kills rabbits for fun

5. Humiliates Tyrion at Tyrion's wedding

6. Humiliates Tyrion at Joffrey's wedding.

7. Asks someone to chose their tongue or hands

8. Changes his verdict at the last second to kill Ned in front of everyone

 

 

Inspiration:

 

1. Tywin Lannister, man who rules by fear and creates an image of menace about himself

2. Tyrion (Notice how he publically slaps Joffrey often, in front of people Joff respects, such as the Hound.)

3. Arya, remember how she humiliated him by the river.

4. Robert Baratheon, always drunk, and unruly. Probably a humuliating life.

5. Being illegitimate, he must have seen a huge difference between himself and his father, and it made him uncomfortable.

 

 

It just seems odd that Joffrey's antics should be so concentrated on one thing, public humiliation. He's not greedy, or a slob, a drunk, doesn't partake in whores, or spend too much money, etc. But he's cruel when it comes to something he can see and feel in other's faces, he has that in spades. 



#2 Minsc

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:50 PM

Have you met his mother?



#3 Et Cetera the Mouse

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:52 PM

It's been mentioned before that Robert hated Joffrey, so he kept trying to gain his father's acceptance. However, his attempts just made Robert think he's cruel and hate him more. I guess Tywin and Cersei were big influences. As Cersei goes crazy in AFFC, she starts doing things that are much like what Joffrey did (Torturing the Blue Bard, ordering people killed because they are "traitors"). And Tywin, well he does all of that stuff, too, he's just more subtle about it.



#4 Acolyte of Radmure

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:54 PM

Some people are just bastards. 



#5 BearQueen87

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:00 PM

I think Joffery is a product of both his nature and his environment.

 

Nature:

Joffery displays some future-serial-killer characteristics. He enjoys cruelty and inflicting it on others. He harms animals. He doesn't appear to express guilt over this acts, instead believing that he is allowed to do them (he's the King). Like some mentally disturbed individuals, he can be charming and kind when he wants to be. But he is quick to anger and takes drastic measures when hurt, insulted, or displeased.

 

Environment:

It may not be fully mental, though. He was raised in an atmosphere where his parents--Cersei and Robert--were emotionally and physically abusive toward each other. It was not a happy home, which does not foster good development for young children (though, of course, the other side of that coin is Tommen and Myrcella who appear to be vastly different from Joff). His father was renowned as a great warrior who enjoyed war and hunting. When Joff hurts the cat, Robert hits him incredibly hard, answering violence with violence, the lesson being that violence is acceptable when you're in charge.



#6 lyannaisalive

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:23 PM

He was so young that was all he could do but I don't doubt it would have changed when he grew older. 



#7 fire_ice

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:36 PM

if you want to go down the whole psychology route then privation in early childhood. Although Cersei did love him so that changes it a bit, but her example was perhaps not the best as his only paternal figure..



#8 The Second To Last Dragon

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 09:18 PM

he was an okay guy

#9 Bran The Baker

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 09:41 PM

I blame Robert for much of Joffrey's behavior.  I don't think Robert taught Joffrey how to be cruel, but he sure didn't teach him how to be noble.  I think the cruelty came from his mother.  I'm not even sure how much interaction Joffrey had with Tywin while growing up so it's tough to heap any blame on him.  I think Tywin even admits that Joffrey would not have been a good King,

 

Robert seemed like the kind of father who was apathetic towards his heir, and left the child rearing to Cersei.  Compare to Ned who always felt like a very hands on father and lead by example (for better or worse).



#10 Fire and Beer

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:38 PM

I think Joffery is a product of both his nature and his environment.

 

Nature:

Joffery displays some future-serial-killer characteristics. He enjoys cruelty and inflicting it on others. He harms animals. He doesn't appear to express guilt over this acts, instead believing that he is allowed to do them (he's the King). Like some mentally disturbed individuals, he can be charming and kind when he wants to be. But he is quick to anger and takes drastic measures when hurt, insulted, or displeased.

 

Environment:

It may not be fully mental, though. He was raised in an atmosphere where his parents--Cersei and Robert--were emotionally and physically abusive toward each other. It was not a happy home, which does not foster good development for young children (though, of course, the other side of that coin is Tommen and Myrcella who appear to be vastly different from Joff). His father was renowned as a great warrior who enjoyed war and hunting. When Joff hurts the cat, Robert hits him incredibly hard, answering violence with violence, the lesson being that violence is acceptable when you're in charge.

It's not only that his parent's relationship was fucked up. its also the fact that Robert didn't really give a shit about J his whole childhood. He did alot of that cruel shit when he was young to please or win over Robert, but his sadistic tendencies just drove Robert farther away. although Cersei did love him she didn't give him guidance FOR SHIT . every cruel thing he did, Cersei said "HALLELUJAH DIS MY SON" not realizing the monster he was growing to be. or maybe she was proud of that. Joff took after Cersei's nature, after all ugh fuck the lannisters basically



#11 JonCon's Red Beard

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:47 PM

Inspiration:

1. Tywin Lannister, man who rules by fear and creates an image of menace about himself
2. Tyrion (Notice how he publically slaps Joffrey often, in front of people Joff respects, such as the Hound.)
3. Arya, remember how she humiliated him by the river.
4. Robert Baratheon, always drunk, and unruly. Probably a humuliating life.
5. Being illegitimate, he must have seen a huge difference between himself and his father, and it made him uncomfortable.


All of these people and you don't mention his mother?

1. Tywin ruled by fear and did many wrong things, but he wasn't seen torching people just because. At least, he waited to have an excuse so he at least would try to come out reasonable.

2. Tyrion did what Joffrey's parents never did: educate him. Sadly for him (and Westeros) it was too late.

3. Arya humiliated him because Joffrey attacked Mycah first, taking advance on the fact he was a prince.

4. That I agree. But not excuse, though.

5. I don't think he was smart enough to realise he was illegitimate.

Joffrey was cruel because he grew thinking he was a prince entitled to do whatever he wanted. He pretty much says it when he's a King: A king can do as he likes. And we know that's not true.

#12 The Hound's Chicken

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:35 PM

Some people are just bastards. 

Jon Snow is a bastard but he's awesome

#13 JoeyBanana

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:38 PM

It's only irregular cruelty. It's not so bad.

 

Even less bad if it's for sacrifice magic and other kinky stuff.



#14 Zoravar Singh

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:40 PM

5. Being illegitimate, he must have seen a huge difference between himself and his father, and it made him uncomfortable.

 

 

None of the Lannister children know that their true father is Jaime, so being illegitimate is not a factor here.



#15 Fenice

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:53 PM

Part of it is definitely entitled upbringing. Also not just in real life, but also even in the books doesn't it highlight how children of incest turn out not well sometimes?



#16 Tolkiennerd

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 01:16 PM

I think Joffery is a product of both his nature and his environment.

 

Nature:

Joffery displays some future-serial-killer characteristics. He enjoys cruelty and inflicting it on others. He harms animals. He doesn't appear to express guilt over this acts, instead believing that he is allowed to do them (he's the King). Like some mentally disturbed individuals, he can be charming and kind when he wants to be. But he is quick to anger and takes drastic measures when hurt, insulted, or displeased.

 

Environment:

It may not be fully mental, though. He was raised in an atmosphere where his parents--Cersei and Robert--were emotionally and physically abusive toward each other. It was not a happy home, which does not foster good development for young children (though, of course, the other side of that coin is Tommen and Myrcella who appear to be vastly different from Joff). His father was renowned as a great warrior who enjoyed war and hunting. When Joff hurts the cat, Robert hits him incredibly hard, answering violence with violence, the lesson being that violence is acceptable when you're in charge.

 

It's a good point that Tommen and Myrcella aren't evil like Joffrey, not acting on any of these excuses for evil behavior that people give the boy king. Sure, they're family is one of the worst in the series, but I still think even if Joff was raised by Ned Stark himself, he still would be pretty awful.



#17 The Kinkslayer

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:35 AM

Robert should have beaten Joffrey more often

#18 Foibles

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:13 AM

He's a product of incest. Isn't it heavily implied in the books that a lot of what was wrong with Aerys and many of the Targ kings because of their incestuous dynasty? 

 

Really, Tommen seems a little off too. Not in the cruel way the Joff was, but he's seems too timid and almost like he's "not all there", although that may be more because he's still really young.

 

I think it was just a cocktail of incest, growing up a prince, having a mother who never punished him, a father who wasn't there, and a "father" that didn't love him or do anything fatherly towards him. Basically, he's psychopath who also happened to be lucky enough to be a king.



#19 Lord_Takahashi

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:27 AM

All these contribute to his insanity. but if he cut open a mother cat when he was super young it implies he was just born that way.



#20 IRON BANK

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:28 AM

wilofdorne, how do you leave Cersie off that list.  Also Joffrey is spoiled, so he treats people like crap and acts like a bully.  He lacks discipliine, and firm parental guidance. Look no further than the parents on this one.  Also consider Joffrey reaches adult hood and makes more poor decisions.  He is an awful person all around.