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Why do The Iron Islands so desperately want independence?


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131 replies to this topic

#1 Brock00

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:10 AM

Title sums it up well enough haha



#2 Lord of the Twins

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:13 AM

If they're part of the Seven Kingdoms, they can't raid in the Seven Kingdoms, heh.  



#3 Dain Storm

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:18 AM

For the same reason the Northerners want independence.

#4 willofDorne

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:21 AM

Harrenhal... I believe all the IB are linked to this tragedy in some way and want to re-ascend to greatness, or make others pay for their tragic loss. Harrenhal was basically nuked by dragons.



#5 Darksnider05

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:22 AM

For the same reason the Northerners want independence.

 

What?  You think the North wants independence so it can raid the South and take slaves at will?



#6 Reek Havoc

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:26 AM

If they're part of the Seven Kingdoms, they can't raid in the Seven Kingdoms, heh.  

 

That sounds more like the Seven Kingdoms reasons for insisting that they be a part of the Seven Kingdoms. :)

 

I'd say it has to do with another completely different culture ruling over their culture.  They have no understanding of the Ironborn way of life, so ideally they should have no say in how the Ironborn live.  From the Ironborn perspective, anyway.



#7 Dain Storm

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:26 AM

What?  You think the North wants independence so it can raid the South and take slaves at will?


No, because like the North, they have a real strong sense of nationalism. Even stronger actually. The difference is that they're are looked down upon because their culture includes slaverly and raiding.

#8 Lady Wylla Manderly

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:29 AM

The difference is that they're are looked down upon because their culture includes slaverly and raiding.

 

Well, a culture that's based on slavery and raiding isn't going to be perceived kindly by many.

 

I think it's mostly because the ironborn believe the greenlanders are weaker than they are and it hurts their pride to have one of them as their king.


Edited by Lady Wylla Manderly, 13 July 2014 - 12:29 AM.


#9 Dain Storm

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:34 AM

Well, a culture that's based on slavery and raiding isn't going to be perceived kindly by many.
 
I think it's mostly because the ironborn believe the greenlanders are weaker than they are and it hurts their pride to have one of them as their king.


They're looked down upon by both the fanbase and by the people in the book. I don't like them, but their independence reasons really aren't that different from the North.

Yeah, they look down on greenlanders, but the other cultures in the Seven Kingdoms also looks down on each other. The Northerners looks down on everbody from the south. Southerners look down on the Northerners. Reachmen and Stormlanders still hate Dornishmen. Dornishmen hate them. Everybody hates the Ironborn.

#10 King Chain

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:36 AM

The Iron Islands has 14 letters. So does the French Revoluti, as the French call it. The Illuminati appears to co-exist in our universe...- and theirs.



#11 Hodor?

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:37 AM

The Ironborn have little to no fertile land on the Iron Islands and raided to expand their territory and their ability to farm, hunt and feed themselves.  During the centuries before Aegon's conquest of Westeros with his dragons they controlled much of the west coast of the continent.  At the time of the conquest they controlled the Riverlands.  They want what they used to have.



#12 Lord Reaver

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:39 AM

Gee, I wonder. Let me see:

 

- The people of the iron islands are living in abject misery, with about 50% child mortality rates, short lifespans and general terrible living conditions

 

- The reason for this is the oppressive regime imposed on them by Aegon, where he not only took by far the most fertile part of their kingdom, but also outlawed their main remaining source of wealth without bothering to think of replacing it.

 

- By this time, the only alternative to a short, miserable life was before Aegon, i.e. when the Ironborn were independent

 

- This comes on top of having a different culture (and no, the Old Way is not the end-all-be-all of that) and religion from the greenlanders

 

It should come as no surprise then, that they would want to return to that state, rather than live short, miserable lives trying to eke out a living by fishing, mining iron or trying to farm their craggy islands.


Edited by Lord Reaver, 13 July 2014 - 12:41 AM.


#13 JonCon's Red Beard

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:39 AM

Yeah, they look down on greenlanders, but the other cultures in the Seven Kingdoms also looks down on each other. The Northerners looks down on everbody from the south. Southerners look down on the Northerners. Reachmen and Stormlanders still hate Dornishmen. Dornishmen hate them. Everybody hates the Ironborn.


Even the Ironborn.

#14 Lady Wylla Manderly

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:39 AM

They're looked down upon by both the fanbase and by the people in the book. I don't like them, but their independence reasons really aren't that different from the North.

Yeah, they look down on greenlanders, but the other cultures in the Seven Kingdoms also looks down on each other. The Northerners looks down on everbody from the south. Southerners look down on the Northerners. Reachmen and Stormlanders still hate Dornishmen. Dornishmen hate them. Everybody hates the Ironborn.

 

No, I didn't disagree with you on there. I just think that a culture based on slavery and raiding is bound to be looked down upon: by the readers and other characters alike. I didn't contradict it's influence on their desire on independence.

 

You're right :D The only people who get away from such stereotypes seem to be the Westerlanders and Riverlanders. Though the latter get a pretty rough deal in every war of Westeros, thanks to their location.



#15 Bryanfury

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:44 AM

Gee, I wonder. Let me see:

 

- The people of the iron islands are living in abject misery, with about 50% child mortality rates, short lifespans and general terrible living conditions

 

- The reason for this is the oppressive regime imposed on them by Aegon, where he not only took by far the most fertile part of their kingdom, but also outlawed their main remaining source of wealth without bothering to think of replacing it.

 

- By this time, the only alternative to a short, miserable life was before Aegon, i.e. when the Ironborn were independent

 

- This comes on top of having a different culture (and no, the Old Way is not the end-all-be-all of that) and religion from the greenlanders

 

It should come as no surprise then, that they would want to return to that state, rather than live short, miserable lives trying to eke out a living by fishing, mining iron or trying to farm their craggy islands.

:lmao:



#16 King Rhaegar I Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:47 AM

Their way of life, what they know. Their house words (Greyjoy) are "We do not sow," submitting to Iron Throne rule is a direct violation of those words. 

Quite frankly, without dragons to keep them in line there really is no reason for 7 Kingdoms, they are all very different and have various grievances against one another. 



#17 willofDorne

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:49 AM

Gee, I wonder. Let me see:

 

- The people of the iron islands are living in abject misery, with about 50% child mortality rates, short lifespans and general terrible living conditions

 

- The reason for this is the oppressive regime imposed on them by Aegon, where he not only took by far the most fertile part of their kingdom, but also outlawed their main remaining source of wealth without bothering to think of replacing it.

 

- By this time, the only alternative to a short, miserable life was before Aegon, i.e. when the Ironborn were independent

 

- This comes on top of having a different culture (and no, the Old Way is not the end-all-be-all of that) and religion from the greenlanders

 

It should come as no surprise then, that they would want to return to that state, rather than live short, miserable lives trying to eke out a living by fishing, mining iron or trying to farm their craggy islands.

And they will NOT sow. Don't even THINK about it!



#18 Elkrider

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:50 AM

Before Aegon the Conqueror, the Ironborn were one of the strongest kingdoms, controlling the Riverlands, and much of what would become the Crownlands that had previously belonged to the Storm Kings. Harren the Black was making a pretty good attempt at conquering the South, and they want that power back. 

 

A strong sense of nationalism and fears over the loss of their culture, as other posters have stated. 

 

Although I do doubt that Harren the Black would have ever ended up controlling the entire South.

 

 

- The reason for this is the oppressive regime imposed on them by Aegon, where he not only took by far the most fertile part of their kingdom, but also outlawed their main remaining source of wealth without bothering to think of replacing it.

 

 

The thing I object to here is that the most fertile part of their kingdom was not originally theirs. The Riverlands were conquered in the time of Harren's grandfather, and their rule was by all accounts an unpopular one. See the Lord Tully of that time (Edmyn?) leading a successful rebellion against the Ironborn. The Ironborn were at their most powerful when they had land to farm (or rather land they could make other people farm), but if they would have been kicked out eventually, then they would be in the exact same position. Really what they'd need to do is assimilate certain greenlander practices after conquering land, if they ever wanted to have a chance at holding it. Or build an empire based off sea trade and not raiding, like the Braavosi, another group with few natural resources (and real-world Vikings) did. 

 

TL;DR Raiding is just not a long-term sustainable practice and neither is conquering and controlling land a la the Hoares (or Theon).



#19 TallTyrion

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:59 AM

For the same reason the Northerners want independence.

 

I think it has more to do with having their last 3 liege lords executed by the Throne  



#20 Lord Reaver

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 01:00 AM

TL;DR Raiding is just not a long-term sustainable practice and neither is conquering and controlling land a la the Hoares (or Theon).


You seem to be conveniently forgetting about the fact that the Ironborn controlled most of the western coast of westeros for several hundreds of years. It seems to have worked just fine, then.

Edited by Lord Reaver, 13 July 2014 - 01:01 AM.