Does Nymeria dream that she is Arya?

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

The wolves have grown terrible of late. There are places where a man alone would do well to find a tree to sleep in. In all my years the biggest pack I ever saw had fewer than a dozen wolves in it, but the great pack that prowls along the Trident now numbers in the hundreds. -Septon Meribald

Varamyr tells us that skinchanging changes the skinchanger by giving them the personality of the host animal. But what if any effect does it have on the creature? The above quote made me ask myself that. I suspect that “hundreds” may be a bit of a tall tale, but Nym's pack surely is larger than other packs. In this way, Nymeria is an exceptional leader of Wolves.

How would Nym get this from Arya? Arya has good leadership skills for a child her age, but she's never lead as many people as Nym does wolves. Arya however has traveled farther and wider than any of her siblings. She's the only Stark, perhaps going back to Bran the Builder, to leave Westeros or learn a foreign tongue.

If Nymeria hunts at night, she would have to sleep when the sun is out and Arya is doing her thing. Anyone who's watched dogs sleep knows that they dream. And it's the same with wolves. I'm not sure about the cognitive limits of the lupine mind, but Nym might at least grasp that human societies are larger and more complex than wolf packs are. Imagine her having this 2001 A Space Odyssey moment where she realizes that her pack could be more than it is.

By the way, Nymeria seems to enjoy killing Lannisters.

[lyannaisalive]

How would Nym get this from Arya? Arya has good leadership skills for a child her age, but she's never lead as many people as Nym does wolves

Wolves are MASTER tacticians. They usually follow the alpha male or female and they have complete control over their pack which is why she has such control over them. Add to think fact that She is Direwolf greatly enhances her intelligence and why I think she can lead a much larger pack than you usually find. And some people think Rickon is so wild because Shaggy Dog is like that so it is possible that Arya's personality would have an effect on Nymeria and one of her biggest personalities is that she is a survivor.

Edit: The comments in this thread discuss this same idea a lot http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113541-nymeria-vs-the-freys/

By the way, Nymeria seems to enjoy killing Lannisters. Freys even more so.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

Another interpretation of the large pack is that it foreshadows the renaissance of House Stark. When Nym left Arya at the Trident, there wold have been many small rival wolf packs. But Nymeria united all or many of them into a single force. At present, Westeros has many houses splintered into many factions. But with Sansa acting as a diplomat, Bran gathering intelligence and Arya running covert operations, the new House Stark could bring a lot of houses together.

Of course none of this contradicts the OP.

[lyannaisalive]

Another interpretation of the large pack is that it foreshadows the renaissance of House Stark. When Nym left Arya at the Trident, there wold have been many small rival wolf packs. But Nymeria united all or many of them into a single force. At present, Westeros has many houses splintered into many factions. But with Sansa acting as a diplomat, Bran gathering intelligence and Arya running covert operations, the new House Stark could bring a lot of houses together.

Of course none of this contradicts the OP.

Dont forget Jon is proving himself a worthy battle commander and that he can lead men. Thus giving the Starks a diplomat, a warrior, a spy, and what has the potential to be a very powerful Bran. House Stark is about to make a HUGE re- entrance into the game. So I agree that Nymerias story line could be foreshadowing especially since she has been taking down lannisters and Freys.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I've always seen Nymeria's leadership of the pack as an indication that Arya will have an important leadership role in the future.

As to the question posed by the OP: that is perhaps the best question I've seen on these forums in terms of being thought-provoking. Don't know the answer to the main question, but it's certainly a cool concept.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

How would Nym get this from Arya? Arya has good leadership skills for a child her age, but she's never lead as many people as Nym does wolves. Arya however has traveled farther and wider than any of her siblings. She's the only Stark, perhaps going back to Bran the Builder, to leave Westeros or learn a foreign tongue.

.

By the way, Nymeria seems to enjoy killing Lannisters.

Arya is a charismatic person, making friends everywhere and usually ending up leading a group. There is also something that might foreshadow her becoming a commander of some sort:

"The Warrior was Renly and Stannis, Robb and Robert, Jaime Lannister and Jon Snow. She even glimpsed Arya in those lines, just for an instant".

All these people are commanders of armies. Only Robert and Jaime were exceptional warriors. Stannis is a more careful commander, Jon and Robb are good with a sword but nothing special and we don't really know about Renly's abilities. Arya may also be a commander at some point.

The wolf pack may also indicate that she could regroup various factions and make them one powerful force, the way Nymeria did.

As for Nymeria dreaming that she's Arya, perhaps she does.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

To my understanding, consciously guiding your wolf's actions requires special training which Bran Varamyr and Bloodraven have had, but which John, Robb, Sansa, Arya, and Rickon have not. And yet, Nymeria sometimes act in Arya's interest, killing Iggo and keeping her wolves from eating Cat. The reverse dreaming would explain that and why all the direwolves are so protective of their partners.

I've sometimes suspected that Shaggydog was acting out Rickon's abandonment issues.

[SugarCrisp]

..skinchanging changes the skinchanger by giving them the personality of the host animal.

I thought it was also stated that the dire wolves took on the personality of their owner ( I think early in aGoT). Lady was calm and proper, much like Sansa.

And some people think Rickon is so wild because Shaggy Dog is like that

I always thought ShaggyDog was so wild is because Rickon is so young and only thinks about himself and what he wants. He wouldn't have developed much of a moral compass, or learned to take the effect on other people into consideration when making decisions.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

I thought it was also stated that the dire wolves took on the personality of their owner ( I think early in aGoT). Lady was calm and proper, much like Sansa.

I always thought ShaggyDog was so wild is because Rickon is so young and only thinks about himself and what he wants. He wouldn't have developed much of a moral compass, or learned to take the effect on other people into consideration when making decisions.

It certainly was. IIRC, We get this through Ned. A sceptic, He probably thought Sansa picked out the one she responded to. And that could well be true. But after a few fortnights on the kings road Lady would know the sensibilities of a genteel noble girl.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

Wolves are MASTER tacticians. They usually follow the alpha male or female and they have complete control over their pack which is why she has such control over them. Add to think fact that She is Direwolf greatly enhances her intelligence and why I think she can lead a much larger pack than you usually find. And some people think Rickon is so wild because Shaggy Dog is like that so it is possible that Arya's personality would have an effect on Nymeria and one of her biggest personalities is that she is a survivor.

Edit: The comments in this thread discuss this same idea a lot http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113541-nymeria-vs-the-freys/

So like Nym would probably be able to absorb the drills Arya witnessed in the practice yards of Winterfell and Hasrrenhall, The teamwork on The Titan's Daughter, Yoren's battle tactics and guerilla warfare as practiced by the Brotherhood Without Banners?

[lyannaisalive]

So like Nym would probably be able to absorb the drills Arya witnessed in the practice yards of Winterfell and Hasrrenhall, The teamwork on The Titan's Daughter, Yoren's battle tactics and guerilla warfare as practiced by the Brotherhood Without Banners?

Maybe not the literal tactics but the idea of working together and being smart about it which could enhance Nymerias natural abilities of the same thing.

Edit: Now that I think about it, it's not out of the realm of possibilities that she literally learned those tactics.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Maybe not the literal tactics but the idea of working together and being smart about it which could enhance Nymerias natural abilities of the same thing.

Edit: Now that I think about it, it's not out of the realm of possibilities that she literally learned those tactics.

Perhaps while Arya is having a wolf dream, Nymeria has access to Arya's mind and its more advanced abilities, as Summer knew that 1 eye was a warg.

[JBlaze94]

I think you are on to something. The warg gets some of the animal personality as stated by Varamyr, and I believe it is reciprocated. We know that when a warg dies, he/she goes into their animal. As each day passes, the animal takes over. When Varamyr warged into Orell's eagle, he could sense Orell's hatred of Jon Snow. So it does indeed seem, the animal retains some of the traits of the warg.

I believe Nymeria's wolf pack is going to have some sort of role in either the Siege of Winterfell, or the battle with the Others.

[Booknerd2]

I was just covering this in a post from yesterday regarding Arya.

When Arya stopped with Yoren and the NW recruits in COK they had rabbit for dinner. She went out to the woods to "make water" and that male wolf in Nymeria's pack left her alone. Not too long after that pack is howling and Arya hears human screams and it is left for us by the author that most likely that pack attacked people. He doesn't say it, he just describes what Arya hears as she is preparing to get some sleep after Yoren suggested she turn in for the night. They were known to attack and the stories had reached Yoren and the rest.

I believe that Nymeria has a bit more info than Arya has presently. How to articulate it exactly. That I cannot do. Too little info. It is why I ranted and threw out possibilities because there is still much we don't know.

But I do know that that male wolf knew not to touch her. He was alone. He could have even went back and lead the rest back but they didn't. They went elsewhere and went after other people. He had the prime opportunity to strike with one sole person (Arya) and he didn't. I don't even think he growled.

And let us not forget who pulled Catelyn out of the water.

[lyannaisalive]

I think you are on to something. The warg gets some of the animal personality as stated by Varamyr, and I believe it is reciprocated. We know that when a warg dies, he/she goes into their animal. As each day passes, the animal takes over. When Varamyr warged into Orell's eagle, he could sense Orell's hatred of Jon Snow. So it does indeed seem, the animal retains some of the traits of the warg.

I believe Nymeria's wolf pack is going to have some sort of role in either the Siege of Winterfell, or the battle with the Others.

I think the pack will be involved in a red wedding 2.0 at river run as well.

[White Ravens]

The fact that Nymeria controls an exceptionally large pack of wolves may indeed have much to do with her having bonded with Arya during her formative days as a Direwolf puppy. But when I read about her wolf pack being so big I thought it had to do with the fact that she is a massive Direwolf. Any other pack of wolves that come in contact with Nymeria's pack will have a dominant male (or female) that would normally make a challenge, but the fact that she is so huge and strong compared to a normal wolf would likely lead to all challenging packs accepting her dominance and joining her pack. Nymeria has swept up the members of most of the wolf packs in her region and added them to the strength of her own through the rules of pack dominance.

[Stoned Dragon]

Technically, Nymeria has a large pack because she can defeat any other wolf she comes across. She's the only direwolf south of the Neck and is larger and stronger than any other wolf likely to challenge her.

On a more symbolic level, Nymeria is probably just Arya's unrestrained "id," especially since they mostly communicate with each other in Arya's unconscious. According to Jojen, the wolf and the warg are one and the same, and wolf dreams are a person's unconscious attempts to reunite with the wolf part of themselves. With regards to Arya, it's probable that Nymeria is forming a pack of wolves because Arya's subconscious yearns for family. It's also likely that Nymeria is killing Freys and Lannisters because every night before Arya goes to sleep she prays for dead Freys and Lannisters. The part of herself that is Nymeria acts on those emotions.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

The fact that Nymeria controls an exceptionally large pack of wolves may indeed have much to do with her having bonded with Arya during her formative days as a Direwolf puppy. But when I read about her wolf pack being so big I thought it had to do with the fact that she is a massive Direwolf. Any other pack of wolves that come in contact with Nymeria's pack will have a dominant male (or female) that would normally make a challenge, but the fact that she is so huge and strong compared to a normal wolf would likely lead to all challenging packs accepting her dominance and joining her pack. Nymeria has swept up the members of most of the wolf packs in her region and added them to the strength of her own through the rules of pack dominance.

I agree with everything you say. But a wolf pack with that many animals is going to quickly run into logistical problems. How do you find enough prey? Do you hunt as one big pack or send smaller parties in different directions? Who are the best scouts? Who gets along and who fights? Are factions forming? You would have to be smarter than the average wolf.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

How would Nym get this from Arya? Arya has good leadership skills for a child her age, but she's never lead as many people as Nym does wolves. Arya however has traveled farther and wider than any of her siblings. She's the only Stark, perhaps going back to Bran the Builder, to leave Westeros or learn a foreign tongue.

That part could be wrong. Since Bran the builder lived before the Andal invasion he must have spoken the Old Tongue. So there had to be a generation of Starks who learned to speak the common tongue as a foreign language. But I stand by the notion that Arya is the most cosmopolitan of Starks.

[Ice Turtle]

That part could be wrong. Since Bran the builder lived before the Andal invasion he must have spoken the Old Tongue. So there had to be a generation of Starks who learned to speak the common tongue as a foreign language. But I stand by the notion that Arya is the most cosmopolitan of Starks.

Well of current generation, surely. But according to some bits revealed from The world of ice and Fire, father of Arya's fraternal grandmother was Rodrik Stark the Wandering Wolf who had been member of The Second Sons. Seems like someone who traveled a lot.