Where do the second and third sons go?

[SugarCrisp]

and fourth and fifth etc. if one should be so lucky. I'm talking about the later sons of the great houses.

For instance, say Brandon inherited Winterfell, and we'll assume Benjen still leaves for the Night's Watch. What would Ned do once he's married and starting a family on his own?

Another example is House Tyrell: Willas is set to inherit Highgarden. Garlan gets Brightwater Keep away from the Florents. Loras is one of the few people that managed to join the Kingsguard.

But if times were peaceful, Willas would still inherit Highgarden. However Brightwater Keep wouldn't be ripped out from under the Florents, and there would be no open positions on the Kingsguard. Where would Garlan and Loras go?

[joluoto2]

a) become knights in service of their brother or some other lord

b) become hedge knights (if very adventurous)

c) retainers serving their brother or some other lord (steward, master-at-arm etc.)

d) in some cases they might get a castle and some land, and become a minor lord or a landed knight

e) go to the Citadel, become a Maester

f) become a Septon

g) take the Black

[The Bittersteel]

and fourth and fifth etc. if one should be so lucky. I'm talking about the later sons of the great houses.

For instance, say Brandon inherited Winterfell, and we'll assume Benjen still leaves for the Night's Watch. What would Ned do once he's married and starting a family on his own?

Another example is House Tyrell: Willas is set to inherit Highgarden. Garlan gets Brightwater Keep away from the Florents. Loras is one of the few people that managed to join the Kingsguard.

But if times were peaceful, Willas would still inherit Highgarden. However Brightwater Keep wouldn't be ripped out from under the Florents, and there would be no open positions on the Kingsguard. Where would Garlan and Loras go?

This is a bit of an issue with the series in general to be honest, as Houses rule the same lands for thousands of years. Presumably they stay within the household and fulfill ceremonial and practical roles. That of Castellan or as a Marshal or general. Alternatively, some may join the maesters or go adventuring as Gerion Lannister and Oberyn did. The bloody gate seems to be a position that was reserved for second sons in the Vale. The fact of the matter is that cadet branches while they do exist are few and far between so the majority of the time this is the logical explanation.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

a) become knights in service of their brother or some other lord

B) become hedge knights (if very adventurous)

c) retainers serving their brother or some other lord (steward, master-at-arm etc.)

d) in some cases they might get a castle and some land, and become a minor lord or a landed knight

e) go to the Citadel, become a Maester

f) become a Septon

g) take the Black

any one of those but I have to add: a. Marry a lady. Meaning that they would marry an heiress and becoming Lords consort. b.becoming sellswords.

[Bryden Tully]

Tbh I don't see it as that bad, everyone makes it out like the second son is forced to die or something. They get it about 100 x better than the smallfolk.

They've got a lot of options, if they can fight they could be a tourney knight, sellsword, sworn shield, marshal, master at arms etc

if they can count they can be an accountant, banker, advisor, businessmen, trader or even a maester

If they can charm they could be a good courtier, diplomat etc

If that all fails they can join the nights watch

[CJ McLannister]

They do the same thing that younger sons did in the middle ages.

a) become knights in service of their brother or some other lord

B) become hedge knights (if very adventurous)

c) retainers serving their brother or some other lord (steward, master-at-arm etc.)

d) in some cases they might get a castle and some land, and become a minor lord or a landed knight

e) go to the Citadel, become a Maester

f) become a Septon

g) take the Black

To this I would add that, if they're lucky, they are offered for marriage to an heiress.

[Ser Yo of House Lo]

As Tywin Lannister (R.I.P) said : ''A Great man does all he can do to better his house''.

And that's what a lot of of highborn heirs-to-nothing do, a lot of them either hold marshal/combat positions (Captain of Guards, Commander, Knight, Sellsword), become Lords Consort to whatever house their soon-to-be-wife is from, become maesters( Albeit this doesn't happen too often) or Take the Black ( Very rarely happens).

[Bryanfury]

This question is answered very early in the first book

[Lord Thaeglei of Frostpyre]

1.) Marry an heiress in her own right
2.) Become an adviser or castellan of his lord brother's keep

3.) Become a landed knight or hedge knight

4.) Become a Maester

5.) Join an honorable insitution like the Kingsguard

6.) Take the black

[JoeyBanana]

City Watch or something similar for Highgarden as Lord Commander is also possible.

Especially for Loras if he can't be a Kingsguard. He's still close to the Tyrells and no need to arrange some marriage which will make him unhappy.

The Knight of Flowers stuck at the Wall would be hilarious, though.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

In medieval times a general rule was that the sons went like this:

1. Heir

2. Military/knight

3. Church

4. best of luck, kid!

That wasn't always the case of course. The higher up you went on the social scale, the less likely for strict adherence to it.

In Westeros the second son could always go to Essos and join The Second Sons, but was more likely to rule a holdfast for his elder brother. He'd need to be kept close by in case the eldest died childless (the old heir and a spare routine).

The third Stark son used to go the Wall no question, and I might point out that Waymar Royce was a third son as well. There's also the church (for those who follow the Seven) and the Citadel. Anyone who's really desperate can go into trade.

[No Song so Sweet]

Join the second sons

Pretty much everything else Oberyn tried

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I´m waiting eagerly for Lord Walder´s death.. :drool: :drool:

[The Santa of House Claus]

a) become knights in service of their brother or some other lord

B) become hedge knights (if very adventurous)

c) retainers serving their brother or some other lord (steward, master-at-arm etc.)

d) in some cases they might get a castle and some land, and become a minor lord or a landed knight

e) go to the Citadel, become a Maester

f) become a Septon

g) take the Black

That sums it up rather nicely, but I would list becoming a minor lord as the top choice. Taking the Black would be the top choice for the youngest sons of Northern lords. Ned had made comment about Bran ruling a minor holding in the name of Robb.

[new djinn]

Castelleons, captains of the guard, stewards, holding lands for their elder siblings, marry a heiress, Nights Watch, Kingsguard, City Watch, Cidadel, Faith, hedge knight, household knight, Navy, Iron Throne service, sellsword.

[A Man Has Said]

This question is answered very early in the first book

Yes it is, in a conversation that Ned has with Bran before his fall. Bran would expect to find himself the recipient of one of the Stark's strongholds if he didn't choose to become a Brother of the Night's Watch like his uncle Benjen, or a Maester, or a knight, or even a Septon. (that last I really doubt would have appealed to Bran though.)

[Snowisnobastard]

They go very close to where whores go.

[Hammermen's Revolt]

Tbh I don't see it as that bad, everyone makes it out like the second son is forced to die or something. They get it about 100 x better than the smallfolk.

I don't think the comment was to indicate that younger sons had it bad, but rather that this is one of the flaws in the world-building of Westeros: the Houses al remain very static and the territories are relatively unchanged for thousands of years, which is rather improbable with generations of second and third sons with each their own feudal ambitions.

[LordManderlyAsDragonRider]

I'm sure most lords are not gonna kick their younger brothers out, they stay as advisers/right hands. Robett Glover and his wife and children seems to live at Deepwood Motte, even though Robett is a second son.

[7th-key]

They compete in reality show to become THE valonqar.