Family, Duty, Honor: The Catelyn Re-read Project

[Mladen]

In my opinion, the best quote that describes Tyrion vs Cat smackdown at the Inn and things that follow comes from Tyrion's thoughts on it:

All his life Tyrion had prided himself on his cunning, the only gift the gods had seen fit to give him, and yet this seven-times-damned shewolf Catelyn Stark had outwitted him at every turn.

Interestingly enough, these red-haired she-wolves will prove to be quite able in outwitting Tyrion.

Now, first, nice post, BastardofCasterlyRock. The thing about this chapter is that we see the other side of this smackdown. We already know that Tyrion have nothing with Bran's accident and attempt of murder and Catelyn from this point gets judged accordingly. What this chapter wonderfully showed us is how Tyrion actually acknowledges Cat's thinking process and how his report actually dismiss the idea of Catnapping being the emotional reaction. When we see through Tyrion's eyes the level of thinking that needed to be put in his arrest, the story of emotional mother doing something irrational sounds rather obsolete.

The second thing regarding Cat in this chapter is her motivation. I suppose, and it seems that both Tyrion and Cat agrees, that the roads are all closed, the one to Winterfell, the one to Riverrun, and most certainly the one to KL. Catelyn's decision regarding taking him to Vale could be motivated by many things. First and most definite is the element of surprise, and Tyrion agreed with Cat on this. Then, she is taking him to Lysa who, in Cat's mind have had to have something more than the letter said. I mean, if we recollect the night when Cat received the letter from Lysa, Cat is certain that she can trust her sister based on the importance of the letter, the way it was delivered. So, it isn't out of reach to actually claim that Catelyn thought that questioning Tyrion plus revealing the veil of mystery behind Lysa's letter could bring her significantly closer to what was happening. So, the Vale route seemed like a win/win situation for her.

Lastly comes the beginning of self-doubt and questioning that continues until her last POV chapter. I don't think there is a character with this much introspect as Catelyn, nor that much self-doubt. It perhaps is one of the things why some people find her so annoying, but the fact is that she is contemplating her decisions, choices and roads she has taken shows amazing quality and care. So, this chapter not only that it made her doubt what she did in terms of Catnapping but entire visit to KL and meeting LF. So, even though Tyrion has shaken her confidence and certainty, we should never forget what she thinks of him and why she is not so easy to take his words as gospel. Regardless of how unfortunately they are truthful.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Having said that, I need to clarify that I don't see the Catnapping as a reason of the war in any way; this would be like saying that the assassination of archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was the reason for WW I and had it not happened the war could have been prevented, which is completely wrong.

It is one of the events that act as catalysts for the war to start sooner rather than later, but the Wot5K was inevitable IMO. The big actors had already set the stage.

It's an interesting exercise to ponder what form the coming war would have taken without the Catnapping. Cersei mentions at some point that the Lannisters were preparing to move against Stannis and Renly. Stannis retreated to Dragonstone and protected himself. Renly was proceeding with his plans to ally with the Tyrells, bring Margaery to KL, and get Robert to dump Cersei. Tywin couldn't let that happen. It seems that, without the Catnapping, the war would have been directed against the Reach instead of the Riverlands, right?

[Mladen]

It's an interesting exercise to ponder what form the coming war would have taken without the Catnapping. Cersei mentions at some point that the Lannisters were preparing to move against Stannis and Renly. Stannis retreated to Dragonstone and protected himself. Renly was proceeding with his plans to ally with the Tyrells, bring Margaery to KL, and get Robert to dump Cersei. Tywin couldn't let that happen. It seems that, without the Catnapping, the war would have been directed against the Reach instead of the Riverlands, right?

Not necessarily. We still have Ned at KL finding out the truth about Cersei/Jaime incest and the doubt about the Bran's fall. If Catnapping didn't occur, Tywin wouldn't go Osama Bin Laden mode, but Riverlands would still be in the middle of the Kingdom, and as always would be hit by war. The North, thus the Riberlands too would also be part of war, and Tywin would also have to fight them.

[Tywin Manderly]

It's an interesting exercise to ponder what form the coming war would have taken without the Catnapping. Cersei mentions at some point that the Lannisters were preparing to move against Stannis and Renly. Stannis retreated to Dragonstone and protected himself. Renly was proceeding with his plans to ally with the Tyrells, bring Margaery to KL, and get Robert to dump Cersei. Tywin couldn't let that happen. It seems that, without the Catnapping, the war would have been directed against the Reach instead of the Riverlands, right?

Due to their position in the middle of the realm it is almost inevitable that the Riverlands will be involved in any war in Westeros.

[aje12]

^ Thats why the Tully's best battle strategy is marriage!

[Tywin Manderly]

^ Thats why the Tully's best battle strategy is marriage!

That will usually work quite well, unless you got a silly cow like Lysa in charge.

[David Selig]

It's an interesting exercise to ponder what form the coming war would have taken without the Catnapping. Cersei mentions at some point that the Lannisters were preparing to move against Stannis and Renly. Stannis retreated to Dragonstone and protected himself. Renly was proceeding with his plans to ally with the Tyrells, bring Margaery to KL, and get Robert to dump Cersei. Tywin couldn't let that happen. It seems that, without the Catnapping, the war would have been directed against the Reach instead of the Riverlands, right?

The war would've been exactly the same. It only really started when Robert died which had nothing to do with Cat's actions. Ned still would've been arrested, Robb (or Cat if she had made it back by then, not sure of the timeline) would've called his banners, the Tullys would've been their allies and the logical place for Tywin to strike. Renly only declared himself king a bit later and the Tyrells weren't in open rebellion at first, so Tywin attacking the Reach first would've been dumb, the Riverlands are a much more logical target.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

It's an interesting exercise to ponder what form the coming war would have taken without the Catnapping. Cersei mentions at some point that the Lannisters were preparing to move against Stannis and Renly. Stannis retreated to Dragonstone and protected himself. Renly was proceeding with his plans to ally with the Tyrells, bring Margaery to KL, and get Robert to dump Cersei. Tywin couldn't let that happen. It seems that, without the Catnapping, the war would have been directed against the Reach instead of the Riverlands, right?

Lannisters would eventually have to move against Ned to nullify his power as Hand of the king. Either by Cersei's move, or by Tywin's trap (no Jaime attack and subsequent wounds to impede him from taking the lead). In case he survives, he calls the banners. If not, Robb or Cat call the banners... In any case, the northern army marches south, so the Riverlands would certainly be implicated in the war.

Poor Riverfolk, they are never left in peace... :(

[BastardlyRock]

Thank you to everyone for the kind words on Tyrion IV and your own insightful analyses -- this really is shaping up to be a fantastic re-read! :grouphug:

I just wanted to drop in real quick and let you all know I'll do my best to get the next Cat chapter up later this evening, but at the latest it will be up tomorrow night. Thanks again everyone, let's keep this ball rolling!

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

Due to their position in the middle of the realm it is almost inevitable that the Riverlands will be involved in any war in Westeros.

What was it that the actor playing Brynden Blackfish said a show commentary: "When the Seven Kingdoms takes a piss, the Riverlands changes clothes!" Unfortunately, the Riverlands are very vulnerable to war given their location. They have no geographic barriers like mountains, deserts or swamps to wall them off from conflict. I'm sure they're a great place to live in peactime - fertile, and all those rivers teeming with fish - but not in war!

I'm joining this re-read because I love Catelyn, and she's so ill-done-by in the fandom. I enjoyed the Sansa re-read so much, and I'm catching up and eagerly following along for her mom's!

[BearQueen87]

What was it that the actor playing Brynden Blackfish said a show commentary: "When the Seven Kingdoms takes a piss, the Riverlands changes clothes!" Unfortunately, the Riverlands are very vulnerable to war given their location.

Great way to describe it. The Riverlands were always going to get caught up heavily in the war.

Also, I find your avatar strangely hypnotic....

[BastardlyRock]

Catelyn VI: The Blackfish, the Bastard and the Boy Warden

Overview

As Cat and her party approach the Bloody Gate they are greeted by both Donnel Waynwood and soon after her uncle, Brynden Tully, who grants them admittance to the Vale of Arryn. After some discourse they reach the Gates of the Moon, where Cat learns that her sister Lysa has requested Cat make the perilous final stretch of her voyage to the Eyrie that very night, and so is led upward and upward and upward by Mya Stone. Ultimately, Cat and her (now somewhat diminished) party are greeted by Lysa and the sickly Robert Arryn.

A Few Quick Thoughts

• Cat continues to stick by her convictions externally despite some serious internal conflict, namely reconciling the fact that her ‘prisoner’ is now entering the Vale beside her unchained and fully armed.

Could I be wrong? Catelyn wondered, not for the first time. Could he be innocent after all, of Bran and Jon Arryn and all the rest? And if he was, what did that make her? Six men had died to bring him here. Resolute, she pushed her doubts away.

• Cat ponders the ramifications of her actions, but in all honesty she’s no longer in a position to change the course she’s on, even if she wanted to. The damage has been done, for right or wrong, she must follow through… and do her best not to show that she’s been second guessing herself since the Mountains of the Moon.

• As has been pointed out several times before, this is our chance as a reader to see how Cat interacts with another bastard, this time in the form of Mya Stone. After stifling some initial hostility towards her, Cat quickly grows grateful for her travel companion, but more to come on that farther down.

• Perhaps the most important aspect of this chapter is Cat coming to learn some of the hard truths about her sister’s transformation from the girl she knew into the woman she’s become. The truths come slow at first, but Cat is accepting of the information and begins to build an image of Lysa before seeing her. It’s interesting that Littlefinger is mentioned yet again in this chapter given his and Lysa’s (as of yet) hidden agenda, as if GRRM is purposefully pairing the two into the subconscious psyche of the reader, planting a little seed in our heads that will blossom suddenly and shockingly come ASOS.

The Blackfish

Before encountering her uncle Cat and party come across Ser Donnel Waynwood at the Bloody Gate. It’s here that Cat gets her first insight on Lysa’s current demeanor:

"The clans have grown bolder since Lord Jon died… If it were up to me, I would take a hundred men into the mountains, root them out of their fastnesses, and teach them some sharp lessons, but your sister has forbidden it. She would not even permit her knights to fight in the Hand’s tourney. She wants all the swords kept close to home, to defend the Vale. . . against what no one is certain.”

What’s important here is, again, Cat’s willingness to accept information. After Ser Donnel apologizes Cat is quick to offer:

“Frank talk does not offend me, Ser Donnel.”

While at this moment in time Cat attributes Lysa’s fears to the Lannisters, a more than valid assertion, it’s the first piece of a puzzle pointing at Lysa’s current (and previously unknown to Cat) instability. The next piece comes directly after, when Cat requests for Maester Colemon to travel down and tend to Ser Rodrick’s wounds, only to learn to her dismay that Lysa wouldn’t allow it, preferring to keep the maester close for Lord Robert. It’s most interesting her is Cat’s response to Donnel’s suggestion that the septon see to Rodrick:

Catelyn had more faith in a maester’s learning than a septon’s prayers.

It’s a small line but it goes a long way against any line of thought indicating Cat as a religious fanatic. She’s down to earth and logical in her thinking, and her faith doesn’t outweigh this fact.

Cat has a brief pang of nostalgia at the sight of her uncle, and their affection for one another is earnest and heartfelt. Cat’s assessment of the situation and her own intuition prove prophetic once again when she tells her uncle:

“I fear we ride before the storm, Uncle.”

Our first (and sadly one of our few) views of the Vale is one of staggering beauty, riddled with rich history. Of note geographically is Alyssa’s Tears, especially the parallels and implications on Cat’s own story arc, but seeing as Cat simply notes the waterfall in this chapter I’ll save that analysis for another time…

After conceding to Marillion’s request to accompany herself and Tyrion, Bronn also announces his intent to tag along. Cat is weary of him, noting that he has no kindness, and little loyalty. Cat reads him aptly enough, and her suspicions about he and Tyrion growing close are well founded (and ultimately very pertinent).

It becomes quickly evident that Cat trusts her uncle blindly, and if not at this point then certainly after she’s encountered Lysa, this seems to be an obvious weakness of Cat’s: trusting people from her past under the pretense that they’re the same person they used to be. In the case of her uncle, at least, we know there was little and less to fear. They speak candidly about the events that have led Cat there, and Cat proves once again to be well aware of the political environment as they delve into the Vale’s feelings regarding Jaime Lannister’s recent appointment as Warden of the East (angry) and the geographic weaknesses apparent with the prospect of warring with the Lannisters.

“If the Lannisters should march, Winterfell is remote and the Vale is walled up behind its mountains, but Riverrun lies right in their path.” “I’d had the same fear,” Catelyn admitted.

All of this goes a long way in ensuring that Cat is viewed as a strong, savvy and capable woman in a man’s world, albeit not one without weaknesses. In the end, for me anyway, they flesh out a more round and believable character as a whole.

Another important dialogue to note: the Blackfish both warns Cat of Lysa’s transformation as well as illustrates her sister’s and her own marriages:

The Lysa who came back from King’s Landing is not the same girl who went south when her husband was named Hand. Those years were hard for her. You must know. Lord Arryn was a dutiful husband, but their marriage was made from politics, not passion.” “As was my own.” “They began the same, but your ending was a happier one than your sister’s.”

Here we’re presented with further evidence that Cat and Ned’s marriage is genuinely atypical. Their love for one another also seems to be well known, given the Blackfish’s knowledge of their happiness despite not having seen Cat in so long.

Near the Gates of the Moon Cat proves that she’s close to the truth of the matter, she just doesn’t quite have the whole truth of it, which I feel she’s coming more and more to terms with. Tyrion seems to be enjoying their little game of Cat and mouse as she once again tries to pin him:

“Pride?” Catelyn snapped. His mocking tone and easy manner made her angry. “Arrogance, some might call it. Arrogance and avarice and lust for power.” “My brother is undoubtedly arrogant,” Tyrion Lannister replied. My father is the soul of avarice, and my sweet sister Cersei lusts for power with every waking breath. I however, am innocent as a little lamb. Shall I bleat for you?”

The Bastard

"Mya Stone, if it please you, my lady,” the girl said. It did not please her; it was an effort for Catelyn to keep the smile on her face.

There’s nothing personal here, as far as I can tell. Cat is purely upset at the memory of Jon, and not only because it makes her “angry” but because it also made her “guilty, both at once.” To me this is all the proof needed that had we seen her last interaction with Jon from her POV, she would have struggled with regret and guilt immediately following her venomous words.

As they continue onward and upward Cat finds herself realizing how young Mya is, and in doing so beautifully paints that image of her dual Tully/Stark identity, and perhaps how the Stark culture has pierced deeper than she realized:

So young. Catelyn thought, trying to remember if she’d ever been like that. The girl had lived half her life in summer, and that was all she knew. Winter is coming, child, she wanted to tell her. The words were on her lips; she almost said them. Perhaps she was becoming a Stark at last.

Following this Cat encounters the treacherous path ahead, “twenty feet long and close to three feet wide.” When she feels “the emptiness, the vast black gulfs of air that yawned around her… the wind screamed at her and wrenched at her cloak, trying to pull her over the edge.” - one can’t help but imagine it as a metaphor for where Cat finds herself in the overall story at the moment, with so much uncertainty surrounding her. There’s much and more someone could pull from this brief scene, but I’ll leave that for another daring poster if they so chose.

The Boy Warden

When Cat finally arrives at the Eyrie her senses are as intact as ever, noting that the halls seemed "strangely deserted.” Her assessment of her sister is just as brutally honest,

Lysa had grown thick of body, pale and puffy of face. Her small mouth had turned petulant.

She doesn’t let her memory of Lysa distort the current sight of her. And, as soon as Lysa drops the courtesies and lets her wroth show, Cat’s assessment of sickly Robert Arryn is equally as brutal.

Cat presses that they discuss the Lannisters, despite her sister’s, erm, eccentricities. Sadly for Cat, this is where any delusions that her sister wasn’t as bad as had been hinted at come crashing down. To her benefit, Cat acknowledges this:

Catelyn wanted to slap her. Uncle Brynden had tried to warn her, she realized.

[BearQueen87]

Catelyn VI: The Blackfish, the Bastard and the Boy Warden

Really nice job once again theBastardofCasterlyRock!

I'm going to jump around a bit, hope that's okay. I want to start with Cat's emotions and Mya Stone.

One of my favorite lines of the chapter is at the start:

Sometimes she felt as though her heart had turned to stone; six brave men had died to bring her this far, and she could not even find it in her to weep for them.

Apart from being a giant red HELLO when you do a re-read project, I think this idea--of walling up your emotions for protection--is a big theme not only for Cat but for women in ASOIAF as a whole.

As Sansa tells us "A lady's armor is her courtesy," so no matter what you're feeling, you can hide behind polite smiles or conversation or being genteel. Even though Sansa is going through hell, she manages to pull through by remembering this lesson. (Sidenote: but also interesting that Sansa ends up at the Vale and becomes quite adept at walling up not only her emotions but her identity behind s(S)tone)

Dany, at her wedding to Khal Drogo, "her brother had told her to smile, so she smiled until her face ached and the tears came unbidden to her eyes. She did her best to hide them, knowing how angry Viserys would be if he saw her crying, terrified of how Khal Drogo might react."

Brienne, you can argue, literally hides behind a suit of armor not only because she's a good knight but also because she knows she's not the sort of daughter a man is supposed to want/have. Her breakdown to the Elder Brother on the Quiet Isle comes to mind here.

In this chapter, Cat's emotions are very internal.

--She's worried over Ser Roderik but gives orders to see him tended to like a pro.

--She's mourning over the men who died in the mountain but can't find it in her to weep.

--She's worried that she might be wrong about Tyrion but is resolute that she needs to push on.

--She's concerned about how close Bronn and Tyrion are getting but when Bronn says he will come along to the Eyrie she doesn't fight him or argue. She just agrees in a brief statement.

--And she has conflicting feelings over Mya Stone. But I think it's very important that those conflicting emotions don't manifest in the way she treats Mya. Cat is polite and courteous and makes conversation, managing to hide those emotions behind her stone heart.

--During her meeting with Lysa, it's only towards the end when "the anger rising in her" happens. Before that, Cat is disturbed by what she sees with Lysa but has a cool head and tries to talk rationally with Lysa who...does not respond very rationally. Lysa is the one who can't keep her emotions in check when alone with Cat.

Cat often gets criticized for being too emotional, and I admit I've thought this about her once or twice, but in this chapter I think we something that is more typical not only of Cat but also of many women in ASOIAF--keeping your emotions carefully in check and not letting them rule you.

Moving on to the other parts of the chapter....

It’s a small line but it goes a long way against any line of thought indicating Cat as a religious fanatic. She’s down to earth and logical in her thinking, and her faith doesn’t outweigh this fact.

It is a good line. And we know from Cat I, that "she was of the Faith, like her father and grandfather and his father before him." Before she left WF, there was evidence that Cat and Maester Luwin had a good Lady/Maester relationship as well. Cat obviously respects Maesters in general.

It becomes quickly evident that Cat trusts her uncle blindly, and if not at this point then certainly after she’s encountered Lysa, this seems to be an obvious weakness of Cat’s: trusting people from her past under the pretense that they’re the same person they used to be. In the case of her uncle, at least, we know there was little and less to fear.

First, just gotta say, the Blackfish is awesome. Probably my favorite Tully after Cat.

I would agree that is a weakness of Cat's...though, ultimately, an understandable one. Sometimes you need a bucket of cold water to help you realize that the people from your past aren't who they used to be. Lysa, in this first meeting, is a step in that direction. They are still sisters but Cat knows, by chapters end, that something has changed in Lysa.

The positive qualities of Cat are thrown into even more of a sharp relief when she is with Lysa because the negative qualities of Lysa are so readily apparent. In hindsight, I do feel sorry for Lysa and think that she's a different sort of tragic figure. But GRRM wants us to be aware, from this very first meeting, that Lysa is not what she was made out to be.

[David Selig]

Cat often gets criticized for being too emotional, and I admit I've thought this about her once or twice, but in this chapter I think we something that is more typical not only of Cat but also of many women in ASOIAF--keeping your emotions carefully in check and not letting them rule you.

I've always found this argument very strange. For me she is clearly one of the best at keeping her emotions in check and acting mostly rationally (nobody outside of economic textbooks acts comletely rationally). Making a mistake isn't necessary due to being irrational.

I think her more rational and down to earth approach than the typical high noble is shown again here when she was offered to ride part of the way in a supply basket (or something like that, don't have the books at hand) instead of taking a more risky route. Tyrion is all "I am a Lannister, I am too proud and have too much ego for that" but Cat is sensible and accepts.

It becomes quickly evident that Cat trusts her uncle blindly, and if not at this point then certainly after she’s encountered Lysa, this seems to be an obvious weakness of Cat’s: trusting people from her past under the pretense that they’re the same person they used to be.

Why wouldn't she trust her uncle (who used to be great to her while she grew up) just because she hasn't seen him in a while? I wouldn't say she trust him blindly, just that there is no indications he's changed in a way to make him not trustworthy so her behaviour is common sense IMO. People usually don't change that drastically, so unless you have a reason to suspect it, it makes sense to treat him the same way as before IMO.

As for Mya, I don't see any hostiliy towards Mya herself. In fact Cat is quite sympathetic to her and even compares her to her precious Sansa. She only has a problem with one bastaard - Jon, not bastards as a group.

[BastardlyRock]

Really nice analysis BearQueen87!

Apart from being a giant red HELLO when you do a re-read project, I think this idea--of walling up your emotions for protection--is a big theme not only for Cat but for women in ASOIAF as a whole.

I think this was an exceptionally well-made point, thank you for covering it as amply as you did. I think at some point I'd meant to return to the heart made of stone line and I just didn't get back around to it (kicking myself now, lol). And yes, Blackfish is awesome, one of my all time faves. :thumbsup:

Why wouldn't she trust her uncle (who used to be great to you while you grew up) just because you haven't seen him in a while? I wouldn't say she trust him blindly, just that there is no indications he's changed in a way to make him not trustworthy so her behaviour is common sense IMO. People usually don't change that drastically, so unless you have a reason to suspect it, it makes sense to treat him the same way as before IMO.

Very fair point, perhaps I was a little too rash in pointing it out as a flaw, but instead it's more of a common thread in Cat's story at this point.

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

The Blackfish rules! I adore him. He's also my favorite Tully along with Catelyn. I've heard crackpots that he's Cat's real father and was always in love with Minisa Whent, but that's a little cracky even for me, who loves crackpot theories. I think that Catelyn fills the role of the daughter he never had, and Robb the grandson. Likewise, Cat remembers Brynden as taking on more of the paternal role than her own father did.

A digression: given that Cat remembers all the kids confiding in Brynden, I wonder if Petyr ever told Brynden that he was in love with Cat and hoped to marry her? Given that Brynden Blackfish (like Davos Seaworth) has a habit of telling the truth, even if it's unpleasant, he probably would have told Petyr that the infatuation was hopeless and there was no way he could ever marry Cat. If he did, then Petyr must have brushed it off.

I also wonder if the Cat/Lysa relationship led Sansa to be more than usually disappointed in her relationship with Arya? I say Sansa because she is the older, and may well have grown up with her mother reminiscing about her childhood with Lysa and their close relationship - "Lysa and I learned to embroider together," "Lysa and I had a secret language that only the two of us knew," etc. Sansa might have looked forward to Arya getting a little older and them having the kind of close relationship that her mother and aunt had, and was sorely disappointed that she and Arya were two such different people. Arya's lack of "ladylike" behavior and interest in embroidery, music, and the other noble lady arts that Sansa took to like a duck to water, really burns Sansa's britches; I surmise that she might be comparing Arya to the (imagined, and idealized) sisterly bond that Catelyn and Lysa shared. Sansa seems to crave women friends - she and Jeyne Poole were "like sisters," and she was thrilled when Margaery Tyrell wanted to be a sister to her.

Even as Alayne Stone, wary and trusting no-one, she seems to like Mya Stone and Myranda Royce.

I think Sansa misses what she assumed her mother had, and fills the gap with like-minded girlfriends who become "chosen sisters."

(I think when she finds out about poor Jeyne, it's one of the things that will make it Payback Time for Petyr.)

Catelyn loved her sister, and, up until now, trusted her. And why not? She had no way of knowing that Lysa had gone round the bend until too late. Until recently, Lysa had been living in KL as the Hand's wife, and probably wrote to Catelyn infrequently.

When the Blackfish told Cat that Lysa had changed drastically and was not a well woman, the first "uh oh!" sinks in. Then, when Lysa demands that Cat and her party make the ascent to the Eyrie right away, at night, without adequate rest - making a dangerous journey even more perilous - Cat really begins to wonder. But it's too late - the die is cast. Then, Cat meets Lysa, and she realizes that things have gone horribly wrong with Lysa.

But, all in all, I really don't see why Cat wouldn't trust Lysa, until she was reunited with her. Lysa is family, and Cat lives and breathes "Family, Duty, Honor." And, crucially, she assumes Lysa Tully would do the same.

The Blackfish notes that "Lysa is not you" and I think he's always seen Lysa's character flaws. I think Cat has now been forcibly reminded of Lysa's essential weakness of character; I think she had forgotten a good deal of that during their longs separation, absence making the heart grow fonder and all that. But, again, Lysa is a Tully, too, and Cat would have every reason to believe that she would also live by the family motto. I really do not blame Cat for trusting her own sister. We, the readers, know what is up with her; Cat has no way of knowing.

(If Arya is a blend of Brandon and Cat, I see Sansa as a blend of Ned and Lyanna. Sansa and Lyanna were romantics, and had that iron underneath the beauty which only those close to them suspected.)

[Tywin Manderly]

Then, when Lysa demands that Cat and her party make the ascent to the Eyrie right away, at night, without adequate rest - making a dangerous journey even more perilous - Cat really begins to wonder. But it's too late - the die is cast.

And that hypocritical bonkers bitch Lysa remained safely in her warm bed until Catelyn arrived. :stillsick:

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

And that hypocritical bonkers bitch Lysa remained safely in her warm bed until Catelyn arrived. :stillsick:

Oh god yes. Lysa is all about "me, me, ME!" Where Catelyn emphatically is not - on the contrary, she's willing to sacrifice just about everything for the sake of her family.

While I think a lot of this is down to innate character, I think much of Catelyn's strength of character was fostered by her being the eldest and being trained as a potential heiress to Riverrun if there were no living sons. I wouldn't be surprised if Lysa was both more indulged and at the same time more ignored, while Hoster, Minisa (before she died) and Brynden expected a lot of Cat and had much confidence in her.

[Tywin Manderly]

I wouldn't be surprised if Lysa was both more indulged and at the same time more ignored, while Hoster, Minisa (before she died) and Brynden expected a lot of Cat and had much confidence in her.

Not to mention Littlefinger feeding Lysa lies, nonsense, and other crap for several years causing her to think that her life should be a song with her as Jonquil and Littlefinger as her Florian, the both of them taking on an evil world full of monsters like Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully. :ack:

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Very nicely done, theBastardofCasterlyRock! :thumbsup:

This chapter is very atmospheric with some very beautiful and imposing descriptions of scenery. The Vale all of a sudden opens up to the view of the newcomer giving the impression of a fairy land and then there's the Eyrie... the ascend as well as the castle itself is dreamlike and spooky in the same time. Its inhabitants, in a strange way, fit nicely all this eerie fairytale scenery as they are ...well, appropriately weird. More trollish than fairy-like, though.

Once again, Catelyn is our introductive POV to a new place and new characters.

Starting from the Blackfish... a great relief, after such a journey, to find someone like Brynden. A close relative, down to earth, intelligent, capable and reliable. I was thinking it's such a pity that Brynden didn't choose Winterfell instead of the Vale when he decided to leave Riverrun... how many things would have gone differently if he was there to offer advice, support and practical help in the critical time that preceded led to current developements...

The Blackfish offers a first insight to the situation at the Vale and prepares Cat as well as the readers for what is to come. However, nothing could be enough to prepare us for the shock that is Lysa.

In retrospective, Lysa is a really tragic figure. But I think she is often very underestimated, both in-story and in how we readers view her. She gives the impression of a crazy and not so bright, overly afraid and weak lady. All of which are true... but hidden underneath, also exist some --quite impressive, actually, but in a bad way-- character traits that make her really dangerous: Lysa is very willful in her desires and her illusions, extremely persistent to push for what she wants to the point of becoming criminal. She is totally ruthless as well: Tyrion might lead to exposing her culpability, so she decides that Tyrion has to die. And, while not smart, she possesses a low cunning and is capable to deceive smart people: nobody would suspect the "feeble widow" for the murder of Jon Arryn; her potential to crime is just not seen. In the re-read, knowing the full story, we can see the great ease that she lies and the way she can put on quite a show playing the loving sister in front of her Maester and captain of guard, changing to cold and snappy when she and Catelyn are left alone.

Sweetrobin is the victim of the situation... the boy suffers from some serious condition (some unknown, fictional autoimmune disorder I'd suppose) and children like this, unfortunatelly, have to grow up and mature really quickly in order to cope up with their situation... but on the contrary, little Robert is treated like a baby and what's worse, his mother transfers her fears and hysterical moods onto him when the boy needs emotional stability and rationalization. Characteristically in this chapter, Sweetrobin is doing just fine until his mother shouts to Cat “You’re scaring the boy”. Only then Sweetrobin gets frightened and begins to tremble...

In the next chapter, Mord will complete the image of the Eyrie's "Addams family" :).

Much more to say, but too little time now...