40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 We obviously have extremely significant moments of the direwolves growling at people who have betrayed Starks (Ghost with the NW and Grey Wind with the Westerlings). I have always been under the impression that the direwolves do not have future-predicting abilities, but they do sense betrayal that has already happened. So why does Lady growl at Payne at the inn in AGOT, and why is Sansa filled with a horrible sense of fear and literally brought to tears in the middle of a crowd? I only have 3 thoughts: 1. He is going to take off Ned's head, so if Lady can sense the future then there is that2. Littlefinger is paying him? An illiterate man with no tongue would be an ideal employee for LF3. He is somehow related to darker forces like the others, with his "pale, colorless eyes", and Cersei says his devotion to our realm is unquestioned which seems like slightly odd phrasing I'm thinking LF being involved is clearly most likely out of those possibilities, but I would like other people's thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think it's probably the Ned thing, like Greywind with the Freys and Westerlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think a more likely explanation is that Payne scares Sansa, and Lady picked up on that and reacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themengsk176 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 It could be that Payne is just not a nice person, and his true nature is concealed by his inability to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ache Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Maybe it was Sandor Lady was growling at? Sansa was focused on Ser Ilyn at that moment, she didn't know Sandor was right behind her but Lady probably did. Some dogs won't tolerate strangers approaching their owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword of the Morgan Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think a more likely explanation is that Payne scares Sansa, and Lady picked up on that and reacted. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think it's probably the Ned thing, like Greywind with the Freys and Westerlings. No, the Freys and Westerlings had both already betrayed Robb, at least the Westerlings had according to the theory that Jeyne's mother had been giving her moon tea and written a letter to Tywin already (and that Jeyne ended up escaping with Blackfish and seen by Sam in Oldtown with Robb's child). I'm OK with the idea that Sandor or Payne are just scary motherfuckers, but re-reading AGOT again, I'm reminded that it is a really fucking intense scene. Sansa breaks into tears for no reason and the prince has to come to her rescue. Quote: "The king is gone hunting, but I know he will be pleased to see you when he returns," the queen was saying to the two knights who knelt before her, but Sansa could not take her eyes off the third man. He seemed to feel the weight of her gaze. Slowly he turned his head. Lady growled. A terror as overwhelming as anything Sansa Stark had ever felt filled her suddenly. She stepped backward and bumped into someone. Strong hands graped her by the shoulders, and for a moment Sansa thought it was her father, but when she turned, it was the burned face of Sandor Clegane looking down at her, his mouth twisted in a terrible mockery of a smile. "You are shaking, girl," he said, his voice rasping. "Do I frighten you so much?" He did, and had since she had first laid eyes on the ruin that fire had made of his face, though it seemed to her now that he was not half so terrifying as the other. and then she starts crying. so it's not the Hound, it is definitely Payne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Do we have any occasions of direwolves indicating knowledge of the future? I'm sure there are things I have forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think a more likely explanation is that Payne scares Sansa, and Lady picked up on that and reacted. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 But why is he scarier than anything in her whole life? That doesn't make any sense to me unless he has some sort of evil intentions toward Starks like every other character who has been growled at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I am not satisfied with the explanation that he is just scary. She literally knows nothing about him at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I am not satisfied with the explanation that he is just scary. She literally knows nothing about him at this point. Some people just look scary and give off a creepy vibe. Especially to a young girl like Sansa. Could it be some form of foreshadowing? sure. But I don't think the wolves are supposed to be able to predict the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Some people just look scary and give off a creepy vibe. Especially to a young girl like Sansa. Could it be some form of foreshadowing? sure. But I don't think the wolves are supposed to be able to predict the future. Exactly! I also don't think the wolves are supposed to be able to predict the future. So if we follow the logic that: 1. Grey Wind growled at 2 separate occasions at evil Westerlings (Cat insisted Robb send the uncle away if you recall) and again right before RW. 2. Ghost growled at NW people before shit went down. 3. Lady, in her only act ever really, growls at Ilyn Payne because? All the other times were not just foreshadowing, the direwolves could actually sense betrayal, so why would this time be different? Doesn't this indicate that Ser Ilyn has already betrayed the Starks at this point? Or does he just hate Ned for some unknown reason and therefore Sansa? My most coherent thought is that LF is already buying off every person necessary to kill Ned, the gold cloaks and the executioner and everyone. So has Ilyn been in on part of the plan since that early in AGOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 A creepy vibe does not translate into overwhelming terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanless Mace Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Sansa is more powerful than we or she yet know. She sensed Payne's role in her fathers coming death, and Lady picked up that same vibe. Sansa will prove to be the most powerful Stark of all, perhaps touched off by some signal to come from Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Exactly! I also don't think the wolves are supposed to be able to predict the future. So if we follow the logic that: 1. Grey Wind growled at 2 separate occasions at evil Westerlings (Cat insisted Robb send the uncle away if you recall) and again right before RW. 2. Ghost growled at NW people before shit went down. 3. Lady, in her only act ever really, growls at Ilyn Payne because? All the other times were not just foreshadowing, the direwolves could actually sense betrayal, so why would this time be different? Doesn't this indicate that Ser Ilyn has already betrayed the Starks at this point? Or does he just hate Ned for some unknown reason and therefore Sansa? My most coherent thought is that LF is already buying off every person necessary to kill Ned, the gold cloaks and the executioner and everyone. So has Ilyn been in on part of the plan since that early in AGOT? Perhaps it was a combination of Sansa being frightened (and Lady feeling that and reacting on it), and Ilyn working for Cersei, and Lady thus being able to pick up on Cersei's personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Exactly! I also don't think the wolves are supposed to be able to predict the future. So if we follow the logic that: 1. Grey Wind growled at 2 separate occasions at evil Westerlings (Cat insisted Robb send the uncle away if you recall) and again right before RW. 2. Ghost growled at NW people before shit went down. 3. Lady, in her only act ever really, growls at Ilyn Payne because? All the other times were not just foreshadowing, the direwolves could actually sense betrayal, so why would this time be different? Doesn't this indicate that Ser Ilyn has already betrayed the Starks at this point? Or does he just hate Ned for some unknown reason and therefore Sansa? My most coherent thought is that LF is already buying off every person necessary to kill Ned, the gold cloaks and the executioner and everyone. So has Ilyn been in on part of the plan since that early in AGOT? Just because the wolves growled twice when they sensed betrayal doesn't mean every growl is the result of someone plotting against the Starks. Remember when one of the wolves growled at Tyrion right before he gave Luwin the plans for Bran's special saddle? That wolf (Grey Wind I think) was just reflecting his master's feelings towards Tyrion. Tyrion was not plotting to betray anyone, he was there to help Bran. A creepy vibe does not translate into overwhelming terror. Maybe not for you or me, but for a young girl in a strange place surrounded by strangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Sansa is more powerful than we or she yet know. She sensed Payne's role in her fathers coming death, and Lady picked up that same vibe. Sansa will prove to be the most powerful Stark of all, perhaps touched off by some signal to come from Bran. I would deem that a plausible explanation in asoiaf world, but do we have any other evidence of that? Does Sansa see into the future at any other point? Again, I really think it is too similar to the other 3 instances of growling direwolves we have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Maybe not for you or me, but for a young girl in a strange place surrounded by strangers? No, she is specifically in a great mood until Payne turns and looks at her, then she is terrorized. And yes, the direwolves act according to their masters' feelings as well, but then I ask again, why does Sansa feel this way? I guess I'm OK with it if she can see into the future but idk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think it's instinct. Animals and children trust their instincts and can tell when someone's giving off 'bad vibes'. Both Lady and Sansa sense this and they both feel that the other senses it too, which increases the bad feeling. Once Sansa loses Lady she tries to act more like an adult and stops trusting her instincts, same as Robb and Jon. And btw, it was the Spicers who betrayed Robb, not the Westerlings. Small difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.