Does political incompetence make you dislike a character?

[Tessarion Theresa]

And if it's so, which character?

[aryagonnakill#2]

Obviously not, everyone loved Ned.

[The Lady Lannister]

I found Sansa's naivity annoying. Then I came on this forum :-)

I was recommended ASOIAF, because I am interested in politics, so political incompetence annoys me.

[Mithras]

In case of Dany, yes.

[Petyr's Little Finger]

Yes. Examples are Dany and Cersei.

[Gibzit]

Ned

[Ser Duncan The Average]

Not really, but I can appreciate a character more because of it. I like Ned despite his lack of political competence, but I love Tywin and Tyrion for their abundance of it.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Knew that Dany would be mentioned within the first 10 posts. :rolleyes: Her political errors are very easy to remark upon because of the cluster of her storyline in ADwD, but she's probably the most politically astute Stark since Daeron II.

Political geniuses are few and far between in this series, so my answer is no. The honorable Ned Stark was so politically inept that he got his head chopped off. Robb and Catelyn also made gigantic strategic errors that killed them both as well. Jon's errors got him killed too but he's going to have a "get out of jail death free card" and will get the chance for a do-over. It's quite parallel to Dany. His warging ability will likely save his butt the way her dragon riding saved hers.

Ned, Brandon, Lyanna, and Rickard make me long for the days of Cregan Stark. The surviving Stark children will be much more savvy.

And Stannis is overrated. Can't wait until TWoW so we see the rest of his story play out.

The politically savvy characters in the series are Varys, Tywin, Littlefinger, and Tyrion. Not exactly fan favorites on these boards, but are some of GRRM's most compelling creations.

[Northbound3.0]

Dislike? That may be a stretch, for me. If a character is lacking in the political realm, they most likely have different attributes that I can like. For example:

Sansa was clueless in the beginning, when it came to politics. However, can any one make a case against her; when it came to being a decent child? Especially, when compared to the little shit, she was to marry.

Ned wasnt very good at the game; yet he is loved by most of the readers and his reputation is without question.

Robb was a dipshit and it cost him his life and the North. But, I'd wager that most readers were behind his cause; before he broke his marriage agreement.

Cersei is clueless and she is currently bringing down KL and pissing the lot, off. But can anyone question her love and devotion to her kids? I doubt it.

Even two polarizing characters like Dany and Jon; who have shown to be weak at certain times in the political arena, each have numerous qualities that can cause another to "like" them.

In fact, I would say that being a political savy person in this series; has an adverse effect on a character's like ability. While most can respect Tywin, Tyrion, Roose, LF and Varys; are they really likeable? Would you really want them around you or you family. As an advisor to you, when at any moment; any of them could knife you in the back? No thank you.

[Mithras]

But can anyone question her love and devotion to her kids? I doubt it.

I certainly can. Cersei does not love her kids. She loves power.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

If a character is both incompetent and evil or at least a big asshole then they seem designed mostly to be hated. Yeah Cersei's incompetence in combination with her other aspects is an additional reason I am not that fond of her.

I find characters like Ned, Daenerys, Robb, Sansa and others to be more complicated than that.

[Northbound3.0]

I certainly can. Cersei does not love her kids. She loves power.

I can give you that and I agree, that she does. But she does care about them. Enough that she would hurt those in their way. Im sorry, but the grief that we saw, when her daughter is shipped to Dorne was real. The fear for Tommen's life is real. The agony we saw for Joff, was all real. It was not all about power, in those moments. Don't take this as Cersei Hype post. She is a villain. But she isnt that black and white.

[Mithras]

I can give you that and I agree, that she does. But she does care about them. Enough that she would hurt those in their way. Im sorry, but the grief that we saw, when her daughter is shipped to Dorne was real. The fear for Tommen's life is real. The agony we saw for Joff, was all real. It was not all about power, in those moments. Don't take this as Cersei Hype post. She is a villain. But she isnt that black and white.

I think you are talking about the show. If so, I agree to a certain extent. If not, I do not agree at all.

[Northbound3.0]

I find characters like Ned, Daenerys, Robb, Sansa and others to be more complicated than that.

More or less, what I feel. Despite them not being the greatest political individuals; their character's are far more than that.

[Northbound3.0]

I think you are talking about the show.

No. Im not talking about those moments on the show. Cersei wasn't upset after Joffery died in books? She wasnt freaking out when Tyrion sent her daughter away? Is she not paranoid, for Tommen's life? I just think it's far more, than broad strokes with a brush. But agree to disagree. :-)

[Roose on the Loose]

Cruelty and callousness make me dislike a character. The effect of political incompetence depends on the character. In Ned it's sad, but in Cersei it's hilarious.

[Pikachu101]

That depends on what their motivations are.

Cersei and Dany annoy me because they have this entitlement towards the throne but fail big time. Cersei's full of herself and is destroying the Lannister's stronghold whilst Dany has this annoying saviour complex.

Robb pissed me off because his political errors cost him the war and put the Boltons in power over the North.

The Greyjoys are just an eyesore, they're so damn stupid it hurts.

[Tiliana]

Incompetence is very rarely why people hate characters

People hate characters for some other reason (they said or did something they didn't like which struck a chord with them personally, they are evil etc.), then say that they also hate their incompetence. When you already don't like someone, you emphasize and pay more attention to their negative qualities more. It's secondary, never primary. Or else Ned would be loathed, and Tywin would be loved

[larastone]

I feel like for most people its easier to like competent villains rather than incompetent villains.

[Aemond's Eye]

Dislike? That may be a stretch, for me. If a character is lacking in the political realm, they most likely have different attributes that I can like. For example:

Sansa was clueless in the beginning, when it came to politics. However, can any one make a case against her; when it came to being a decent child? Especially, when compared to the little shit, she was to marry.

Ned wasnt very good at the game; yet he is loved by most of the readers and his reputation is without question.

Robb was a dipshit and it cost him his life and the North. But, I'd wager that most readers were behind his cause; before he broke his marriage agreement.

Cersei is clueless and she is currently bringing down KL and pissing the lot, off. But can anyone question her love and devotion to her kids? I doubt it.

Even two polarizing characters like Dany and Jon; who have shown to be weak at certain times in the political arena, each have numerous qualities that can cause another to "like" them.

In fact, I would say that being a political savy person in this series; has an adverse effect on a character's like ability. While most can respect Tywin, Tyrion, Roose, LF and Varys; are they really likeable? Would you really want them around you or you family. As an advisor to you, when at any moment; any of them could knife you in the back? No thank you.

I can. She's a narcissist. She only cares about her children as extensions of herself, just as she only wanted Jaime as a mirror image of herself. She's revisionist with her memories of Joffrey as it suits her, and she's demeaning of Tommen as he's not like her.

As for Myrcella? The issue there seemed, to me, to be about control. And about Tyrion.

I have never read Cersei as a devoted or caring parent. Having seen the first two series of GofT before reading, I was genuinely surprised at how narcissistic and self invested she actually was in the books.