E-Cigs: Thoughts, opinions and helpful advice.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

hardest part for me will be not having that first cig in the morning when I get up and after meals. I have heard that drinking lemonade is supposed to get the nicotine out of your system. Cigarettes have over 400 chemicals in them. That is bad, but the nicotine is the real culprit. Many years ago, I heard that from a lung dr that my mother tricked me into going to see in the cancer ward at the hospital. I was so mad a her for doing that and I did not quit smoking. Basically I normally don't like being told what to do.

I thought the morning, coffee and after meals would be the hardest also. So far, so good! Just use the Vaper and craving goes away. If I get into a jam or start to waver I will PM all who have offered, the more help and advice the better. Its why I love this community, so many kind hearted people. Appreciate all of your advice and willingness two help me get through this.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I don't think e-cigs are the greatest idea if you're actually trying to get off cigs. It's just going to keep the cycle of nicotine in your system, which creates the need to keep relieving the withdrawal of nicotine.

Well, my plan and I discussed with the vendor and others who've successfully quit smoking with this method. I will solely (every 2-3 weeks) lower the nicotine content in the cape, til I'm at zero nicotine. I am using nicotine flavor, not any gimmick flavors such as strawberry cheesecake, blueberry, etc, etc... And many said that once the nicotine content was at zero the still keep the nicotine flavor vape on hand to satisfy any craving. You know, cause you still get the nicote flavor to trick your brain. Its worked for a handful of people I work with. I am determined to quit. Without a doubt.

[butterbumps!]

Well, my plan and I discussed with the vendor and others who've successfully quit smoking with this method. I will solely (every 2-3 weeks) lower the nicotine content in the cape, til I'm at zero nicotine. I am using nicotine flavor, not any gimmick flavors such as strawberry cheesecake, blueberry, etc, etc... And many said that once the nicotine content was at zero the still keep the nicotine flavor vape on hand to satisfy any craving. You know, cause you still get the nicote flavor to trick your brain. Its worked for a handful of people I work with. I am determined to quit. Without a doubt.

But, keep in mind, the vendor's goal is to sell you a product that will keep you buying for life.

The longterm efficacy of substitute therapies (gum, patch, e cigs, etc) is not good. Problem is, they don't get you off the mental addiction. The physical addiction to nicotine is nothing-- seriously, there's literally no physical reliance on nicotine.

Think about it-- every night, us smokers went 6-8 hours without smoking while we slept, and weren't at all bothered by it. The issue to overcome is not physical. Hence, these nicotine replacement therapies are pointless at best, counterproductive at worst, since it tricks us into feeling like there's an actual physical addiction, and using substitutes for cigs makes the cigs themselves seem precious and worthwhile, like you're "giving something up"-- which adversely affects overcoming the psychological issues.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

But, keep in mind, the vendor's goal is to sell you a product that will keep you buying for life.

The longterm efficacy of substitute therapies (gum, patch, e cigs, etc) is not good. Problem is, they don't get you off the mental addiction. The physical addiction to nicotine is nothing-- seriously, there's literally no physical reliance on nicotine.

Think about it-- every night, us smokers went 6-8 hours without smoking while we slept, and weren't at all bothered by it. The issue to overcome is not physical. Hence, these nicotine replacement therapies are pointless at best, counterproductive at worst, since it tricks us into feeling like there's an actual physical addiction, and using substitutes for cigs makes the cigs themselves seem precious and worthwhile, like you're "giving something up"-- which adversely affects overcoming the psychological issues.

http://m.netdoctor.co.uk/smoking/withdrawal symptom's_000507.htm. I don't believe that's true. There are many physical withdrawals.

[butterbumps!]

http://m.netdoctor.co.uk/smoking/withdrawal symptom's_000507.htm. I don't believe that's true. There are many physical withdrawals.

Seriously, I smoked 2 packs a day toward the end. I put out my last cig and literally felt no physical symptoms of withdrawal. So, I went from 40- 0 a day. The "withdrawal symptoms" exist only in your head. You go through "withdrawal" each second you are not literally smoking a cigarette. Do you have "constipation, dizziness and nausea" when you wake up in the morning before lighting the first one, when the nicotine is 97% out of your system? This "withdrawal" business is all mental and caused by the anxiety induced by quitting when one doesn't reframe the way think about smoking.

I'd say you have that the wrong way round there - the physical addiction is everything. That's the part that makes people lapse.

We're creatures of habit, sure, and we like to do the same things at the same times as our other same things, but new habits are ingrained after a few weeks.

I really don't. It's entirely mental. Try reframing the way you approach the issue of smoking (that Carr book lays it out) and it becomes super clear how entirely mental the issue of smoking "addiction" actually is.

[Lord Flashheart]

If you want to know what physical withdrawal feels like start abusing opiates and quit cold turkey. If you want to know what a mental addiction is quit smoking cold turkey. Trust me you will see a difference! :)

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Seriously, I smoked 2 packs a day toward the end. I put out my last cig and literally felt no physical symptoms of withdrawal. So, I went from 40- 0 a day. The "withdrawal symptoms" exist only in your head. Seriously. You go through "withdrawal" each second you are not literally smoking a cigarette. Do you have "constipation, dizziness and nausea" when you wake up in the morning before lighting the first one, when the nicotine is 97% out of your system? Seriously, this "withdrawal" business is all mental and caused by the anxiety induced by quitting when one doesn't reframe the way think about smoking.

Look I agree, its all in your mind, your right. I just am saying I can't do it cold turkey I've tried. To those of you who have, congratulations! Your very strong willed humans. I'm not trying to make excuses, I just want to give myself the best chance possible of kicking this for good. As I've said cold turkey has never worked. I'm serious about this. Its something I want badly. Everyone is difrrerent, no? I wish I could just say I'm done, andbthats the end of it. Just never has worked for me.

[Lord Flashheart]

You admit it's all in your mind then you proceed to convince yourself you can't do it in that post. I wish you the best of luck. It's not easy but you CAN do it.

Eta: I know a few people who have had great success with chantix if you are really struggling.

[butterbumps!]

Look I agree, its all in your mind, your right. I just am saying I can't do it cold turkey I've tried. To those of you who have, congratulations! Your very strong willed humans. I'm not trying to make excuses, I just want to give myself the best chance possible of kicking this for good. As I've said cold turkey has never worked. I'm serious about this. Its something I want badly. Everyone is difrrerent, no? I wish I could just say I'm done, andbthats the end of it. Just never has worked for me.

That's just it, though. I'm not strong willed where cigs were concerned. When I tried Chantix, several years ago, I managed to quit for like 3 months, all the while knowing that it was only a matter of time I started smoking again because I was still under the delusion that I loved smoking and not smoking was making me miserable.

That book-- or any therapy that deconstructs the act of smoking in a rational way like that-- is the mental equivalent of nicotine replacement therapy, if that helps visualize things. And since the addiction is a mental one rather than physical, it actually cuts at the source of the issue and enables you to quit "cold turkey" but without willpower. It takes away your desire to smoke when you really think and observe what smoking and the addiction is all about. That's why we're saying there's no issue of willpower-- it doesn't take willpower to not do something you don't want to do in the first place.

ETA: as a side point, since a cognitive reframing like this tackles the issue of desire to smoke, it means you don't use any substitutes, which means you don't gain weight. You're not "replacing" the cigs with anything (sweets, food, furry conventions).

[Lord Flashheart]

What are the physical effects of nicotine withdrawal SB?

Also how long do these symptoms last?

[butterbumps!]

Right, so you're just spewing forth tidbits of the book you're championing. The book that no doubt frames everything in order to shame the reader into quitting. I assume the book puts a focus on people taking control of themselves, so outside factors won't sit well with that, will they? (And hey, if spending £10 on literature that cons you into quitting works, great!)

To suggest that there is no physical component to nicotine addiction is idiotic.

At the end of the day, if someone genuinely wants to quit, they will. A person can tell everyone who will listen that they want to give up, but if they don't mean it, what exactly are they achieving by lying?

Can I just say, too, that that book just wouldn't work in the UK. We already have an Alan Carr, and he's best ignored.

I don't know what your problem is. Or why you are making (wrong) assumptions on a book you haven't even read to scold me for recommending it so highly. And I'm not just "spewing" bs from the book-- much of what I'm saying can be found in any good sources on addiction generally.

There isn't a physical component to withdrawal. Not in the way that's conventionally understood. Nicotine is super addictive, but the actual physical addiction is nearly imperceptible. That means it's super easy to get addicted, but that there's nothing actually keeping you addicted. The actual physical symptoms of nic withdrawal is merely a very slight feeling of emptiness, sort of like being slightly hungry. That's it. It's partially why so many people end up gaining weight when they quit, because it's not always easy to distinguish between the slight withdrawal feeling and hunger. The IBS, mood swings, and other alleged symptoms are not physical in their source.

Again, ask yourself if you get those symptoms while sleeping or when you just wake up before the first draw. No. So it's not physical.

No, actually, I don't believe that "if someone wants to quit they'll just quit." ETA: I mean, I think that nicotine is slippery enough of a drug that it makes it very difficult for even the most well intended quitters to succeed. If you're not really understanding the root of the addiction, then it becomes more challenging to know how to fight it.

And I'm not sure what the hell "Allen Carr" you think we're talking about.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

You admit it's all in your mind then you proceed to convince yourself you can't do it in that post. I wish you the best of luck. It's not easy but you CAN do it.

Eta: I know a few people who have had great success with chantix if you are really struggling.

I know its my mind. I'm not saying I can't do it. I have before with the aid if Chantix, though I had many bad side effects. I'm saying I cant do it cold turkey. I'm using e-cigs to basically ween myself of nicotine, so that when I reduce of nicotine in the cape to zero, I won't have the strong cravings as say ifbi just stop tomorrow. I'm not contradicting myself. You all seem to be doing that for me. Just looking for support and anyone who has used e-cigs to quit , in the manner that I'm going about it. And if anyone has any advice to help me with the process. Like, how long should I stay on a certain level before dropping down and how often to drop my levels down. That being said, I appreciate all your guys advice and support.

[butterbumps!]

I know exactly which Allen Carr you're talking about. That was clear from my post if you care to read it properly.

And really my problem is with most self-help books, because - and as you point out yourself - they're really just telling you stuff you can figure out yourself, or read on the internet for free.

I wanted to quit smoking, and so I did. Do you not believe me?

What was clear from your post is that you have absolutely no idea what the book is about, as all of your assumptions were incorrect. Can you at least read it if you're going to make all these (uninformed) condemnatory comments about it?

It's not so much a "self help" book as it is a book that delaminates what nicotine addiction is about. No "you must empower yourself" bullshit.

I have no idea why you're so opposed to the idea of spending $11 USD on the book when smokers are spending that amount on cigs each day.

I've read a lot of the bullshit you find on the web-- and it is largely bullshit, whether from "official" health sites written by "experts" who never smoked a day in their lives or smokers who didn't really have a great grasp on their own addiction. I've tried E Cigs and Chantix to quit in the past. I've tried to wrap my mind around the addiction myself. I was still smoking 2 packs a day.

Reframing the way I think about it is the only method that's had lasting success for me (and others I know), because the desire to smoke has literally not been there since I put out the last smoke.

Not sure why you feel the need for this wholly unnecessary confrontational tone (i.e. "Do you not believe me" which doesn't follow, and seems to be inviting conflict or something).

Sure, some people "really want to quit" and do. And many of those people using that will power method will at some point fall back to smoking. Some won't but will always feel like they wish they had a smoke. And some won't smoke or ever want one-- i.e. they'll lose their desire to smoke. It's losing that desire that I found critical in both the success and not being miserable about it. That's why I'm trying to support methods that remove the desire to smoke-- whether Carr or another cognitive therapy.

[Dr. Pepper]

I'm not sure why the anger about a book recommendation. A smoker has nothing to lose by checking it out. We spend that much on cigs a day. The time spent reading is what we spend smoking. ffs, you can smoke (or vape) while reading it. If you don't want to give money to the estate of a dead british guy, then pirate it or PM me and I'll email you my own less-than-legal copy. There isn't anything to lose so I don't know why anyone is becoming angry that it's being recommended.

The reason I even looked at the book was because the first day I quit I was about to murder someone so I googled "how not to murder someone when you quit smoking" as a way to calm down. Nearly every single site I came across mentioned that book and it was widely lauded. On Amazon, the majority of the 1 star reviews were those who said things like "self-help books are scams because they don't tell you anything that you can't find online" or "this book is expensive" or "if you want to quit, just have willpower". Clearly people who hadn't read it. The rest were all reviews about how great this thing was.

I got the book. After trying every possible way to quit over the years, I was successful with this method. I don't recommend this book because I think no one can do it any other way. Clearly people do. I just think there is no reason to be angry about this recommendation when, for a smoker, there is nearly zero cost in trying it.

[mormont]

[mod] Let's remain civil, please. [/mod]

[Elder Sister]

I quit smoking 15 years ago. I went from smoking a pack a day to cold turkey. And the physical withdrawal as well as the mental, was rough. My motivation was simple; vanity. I didn't want to look like I'm 70 when I'm 50, and smoking is hard on your skin as well as your lungs.

I picked up a pack of cigarettes about a month ago during an especially stressful time. I lit it, and thought I would throw up, it tasted so bad. What the heck happened to cigarettes? They taste like crap now. I haven't tried an e-cig, but they have to be better than the real thing. I was sad and happy that the cigarette tasted so bad. I don't need to start that habit back up again.

We're not all alike, so it's a bit silly to assume that one way of quitting will work for everyone. But, dang. The way cigs taste now, I would think it's easy to quit. Ugh.

[butterbumps!]

I don't recommend this book because I think no one can do it any other way. Clearly people do.

Yea, I don't think this is the "only" way either, by any means.

But I do think that removing the desire to smoke-- by looking closely and honestly at smoking and nicotine, i.e. a form of cognitive therapy-- not only greatly improves the success rate of quitting, but also vastly reduces the chance you'll be miserable and forever mourning your "loss" of cigs. That's why I was advocating so strongly for a method like this (if not Carr's book specifically)-- I wasn't miserable to stop, I didn't feel like I'd "given anything up," it took no willpower or self control to not light up. As in, it's not just an issue of efficacy, but quality of life during the quit that I think a cognitive method improves one's chances of that I'm trying to advocate for. Like, I think it takes what many see as a stressful time and enables you to be really relaxed about the whole thing.

I think that if one's already spending money on cigs and/ or willing to invest in NRT or other drugs, that the comparatively low-to-nonexistent cost of this book or a similar one seems like a more than reasonable option to try (the audio version of the Carr book is actually free with a trial run of Amazon's Audible app, for example; many libraries carry it as well; there are plenty of other books on addiction generally) . Especially because it instructs you to keep smoking/ chewing/ vaping while reading. And not just cost-wise; you're not putting anything into your body and there's no side effects by trying it.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I ordered the book late last night. Haven't started to read it, but anything, anything at all that might help me kick this nasty habit, I give it a go.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Eta: I know a few people who have had great success with chantix if you are really struggling.

I said in my original post that I used Chantix and yes it worked. I quit for 8 months. Though I had the most vivid nightmares of my life, which I could deal with. What I couldn't deal with was the anger that was a result of the Chantix. The dumbest thing would send me into a rage, a rage that I've never felt before. I called my doctor and he put me on a high dose of Xanax to offset the feelings. It didn't work, so he suggest I stop the Chantix. By this time I had quit the habit of smoking and stayed smoke free. Then one night while enjoying a few bottles of wine with the wife (she smokes only when drinking), I had a couple cigs. I have smoked since. So yea, I went through the hell that was Chantix, to smoke a cig one night and ruin everything.

ETA: sorry, but I don't understand why people are getting upset that I can't quit cold turkey or a Dr. Pepper for his/her advice on the book. If those things bother you, please steer clear of this thread. I would like this to be a place of encouragement and any suggestions that will help those of us who wasn't blessed with the willpower of others. Trying to quit smoking is a good thing (except for Big Tobacco), let's make this thread a good thing for those of us taking this arduous journey, thank you.

[Dr. Pepper]

You're on day two or three of just e-cigs, right? I think that without the actual smoke, you'll start feeling some specific benefits, like the ability to inhale deeply. Holy shit, I remember when I first realized how long I had gone without being able to suck in pounds of air. I just wanted to do it over and over and over. It was so orgasmic. Do it and tell me it's not the most awesome feeling! Celebrate it.