E-Cigs: Thoughts, opinions and helpful advice.

[Dr. Pepper]

Thought I'd give my testimonial on this.

I didn't realize how terrified I was to quit until it was pointed out that the anxiety I was experiencing (that I wrongly attributed to nicotine withdrawal) was terror over quitting. I really just couldn't imagine how to live my life without being a smoker. Cigarettes were tied so much into everyday things. I had smoked my entire driving life, and the people who taught me to drive also smoked. Sure, I've refrained from smoking on occasion while behind the wheel if there was a baby in my car or something. The rest of the time, I was smoking and I could not envision driving without smoking. It seemed impossible and it felt terrifying. Then there are other things. I like sitting outside to read, and it was always with a cigarette. I worried I'd have to give up my outdoor reading time, which I loved. So many people I encounter everyday smoke. I was very concerned I'd never have anyone to talk to because I couldn't figure out how I could talk to them if they were smoking and I wasn't. Most worrisome, I have a lot of anxiety issues and cigarettes were part of my self-soothing rituals. I was absolutely terrified that I would not be able to overcome those anxiety hurdles without cigarettes and would have to immediately return to medications. Then there is feeling terror that one will fall off the wagon because they don't have enough willpower.

In short, since cigarettes seemed like they were so tied in with simple functioning in my everyday life, it felt like this extreme and scary sacrifice I was making when I decided to quit. Now that I look back, one problem with all the willpower methods (for me, at least) was that it creates a scenario where I was almost solely focused on the cigarette (which has a drug with an extremely short shelf life) instead of considering all of the behaviors and thought processes that kept me smoking for so long. This is why I'm a big advocate for that book (or something similar) as it's not a willpower method. The method helps remove a lot of that anxiety and fear we experience when we are overcoming an addiction.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Dr. Pepper, yea driving is another one, especially since I drive 1 1/2 hours to and from work. And I work night shift, its what kept me awake. Two things helped me, lollipops and chewing gum. Just the act of doing something really help curb the want for a smoke.

I'm with you on the anxiety also. I've always had anxiety issues, albeit minor. Not enough to go on any Benzos, because I stay away from pills at all cost. As I said before I had a pill problem in my mid-twenties. But just a few weeks ago, I thought I was having a heart attack. Classic symptoms, started with me being short of breath. Then the more I thought about having a heart attack, the worst it got. Well, went to the ER and they ran all the tests (EKG, chest xray, blood work), everything was fine. Said I had a touch of bronchitis and when the phlegm was breaking up, it can cause you to feel as if you can't breath. Then my anxiety took over, and had a panic attack. Never had one before, but doc says because of working nights and not getting enough sleep, that my body can't deal with the anxiety as it used to. So, I have to address all of that now. Smoking always helped with my anxiety also. Even though i didn't have a bad case of it. Wow, never had a panic attack before, scariest thing I've ever experienced.

[butterbumps!]

Well I get what your saying. I just got done eating bacon, eggs and coffee. Oh baby, now that's when a cigarette tastes glorious! Its just the negatives far out way them glorious moments. Yea, I am Luke any other smoker, after eating, with coffee, with a glass of wine and when I crawl out of bed, those are my favorite times. Sure, I'll probably miss them here and there. But, just right now, it wasn't too hard. Took a few vapes, and started helping out with the kids and chores. The key to quitting, IMHO, is letting go of those glorious times we have with cigarettes. But, it truly doesn't terrify me. I've quit before, and when I was over it, I was over it.

Where I messed up was I got cocky. My doctor told me, when u quit, u can never smoke another cigarette, you'll go back. My wife can smoke two cigarettes when she drinks, and never ever has one any other time. Its mind boggling, actually. So, I thought I could do the same, I fucked up. I went out the next morning and haven't stopped since. So yea, I'm sure I will have intense cravings at times, and sure, I'll probably miss them. But, it terrifies me more to smoke and all the negatives associated with it.

So, the bolded is, I think, the prevailing attitude toward quitting nicotine. I strenuously disagree. Whether that was the root of how you were seeing it is what I was trying to get at just before.

That you still think of certain smokes as being glorious or desirable is what I think would be extremely beneficial to address. As long as you think of quitting as letting go of a friend, or good times, or certain cigarettes as beneficial, such as anxiety reducers, concentration boosters, or look back on times smoking fondly with nostalgia, I think it makes it remarkably easy to slip up and return to smoking.

Think really mindfully about smoking-- even those alleged glorious cigs. Do/ did you actually, genuinely enjoy those cigs as something adding to your state of being? Or was the sheer bliss and joy you felt something closer to the feeling of stopping the agita of withdrawal after a period of having not smoked?

Example: I was convinced that cigs helped me concentrate. That was the big one for me, and why I basically fought with my lungs and sense of taste to become accommodated to smoking again after Chantix. I started again because I had a big project, and I was under the delusion that cigs enabled you to concentrate better. After all, when I sat down to start similar tasks in the past, I'd of course lit a cig to refocus myself and get down to work, right?

Yea, no. After examining this more mindfully, the beneficial concentration enhancement I was receiving was nothing more than relieving withdrawal, and in my addict mind, I was seeing the cig as a magical tool to clear my head I realized. Basically, a smoker constantly goes through withdrawal when not literally smoking. When a problem or task comes up, like writing an article, the smoker now has a new "problem" to focus on in addition to going through withdrawal which can make you a bit unfocused. So smoking does help you "concentrate" to the extent that it relieves the loss of concentration caused by smoking in the first place.

Taking this kind of inventory is how I came to realize that these cigs I thought I loved and would sorely miss were the most useless things in the world. Recognition of how nicotine works like this-- where you can observe yourself how it's not actually doing these wonderful things we think it is, like making you calm, focused and so forth-- made it really easy to stay away from them, because they become no longer desirable.

[butterbumps!]

Butterbumps, on a side note, isn't it amazing how Chantix works? I mean they tell you to keep smoking the first week your on it, then quit. I didn't I probably smoked 4 or 5 a day for the next few weeks. They tasted even worse, but I felt like I needed one. Then poof, you wake up one day and you have absolutely ZERO desire to smoke a cigarette. It blew my mind. If I didn't have the anger/rage issues I developed while on it, I'd be popping those bad boys right now.

eh, I'm not really on board with Chantix, I'm sorry to say.

I still thought like a smoker while on Chantix. The only difference was that I wasn't literally smoking cigs.

All Chantix does is block the nic receptors so that you don't get a "hit" when you smoke. It's only addressing the physical side effects, which are in reality so minimal. Worse, it caused major headaches, depressive thoughts and a string of increasingly more upsetting night terrors.

Worst of all, it didn't change the fact that I still wanted to smoke from time to time. That I still saw a cig as desirable tormented me.

I'd also add that Chantix doesn't actually even have great longterm success rates; the optimistic longterm rate they normally publish is for Chantix and therapy if you look at the fine print (they are sneaky like that).

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Six days no cigs, I found a new nicotine flavor, Nutty Professor, they call it a French almond cigarette flavor. Love it. The regular nicotine flavors was starting to taste nasty, so I tried some and this without a doubt is best flavor I've come across. Best of luck to anyone else, on this see journey. Stay in touch.

[Swordfish]

The studies I've seen seem to indicate that this is not an effective way of quitting long term, and there is dubious information about what the health effects of e-cigs are.

Is it better than smoking? Probably. But it does not appear to be very promising in terms of being a good tool to actually quit and stay quit.

Also, my understanding is that only the higher end vape kits are actually giving you 100% vapor, and that most are exceeding combustion temps anyway. Is this inaccurate?

This strikes me as a bad idea, TBH.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

The studies I've seen seem to indicate that this is not an effective way of quitting long term, and there is dubious information about what the health effects of e-cigs are.

Is it better than smoking? Probably. But it does not appear to be very promising in terms of being a good tool to actually quit and stay quit.

Also, my understanding is that only the higher end vape kits are actually giving you 100% vapor, and that most are exceeding combustion temps anyway. Is this inaccurate?

This strikes me as a bad idea, TBH.

I've read alto about this before starting. Nothing ecigs are harmful or any toxins, let alone tar and smoke. If you don't wanna give it any effort, your right, wont be very effective. Its about mindset and having a plan. IM using it to quit completely both cigs and ecigs. I don't wont to be using either in 6 months. If I was just substituting one for the other, than IM sure your right.

[Swordfish]

I've read alto about this before starting. Nothing ecigs are harmful or any toxins, let alone tar and smoke. If you don't wanna give it any effort, your right, wont be very effective. Its about mindset and having a plan. IM using it to quit completely both cigs and ecigs. I don't wont to be using either in 6 months. If I was just substituting one for the other, than IM sure your right.

I don't think we really know enough about them to make a statement like 'Nothing ecigs are harmful or any toxins'

So why take the chance, when there are proven, safe alternatives to help you stop?

[butterbumps!]

If I was just substituting one for the other, than IM sure your right.

Can you clarify in what way this is not what you're doing?

Since you say you already knew all about e cigs before starting this, and are obviously hell bent on using this method despite what everyone's said about it, why start the thread to ask opinions? And just so you're aware, e cigs haven't actually been carefully evaluated yet by independent studies (i.e. not funded by the vape companies themselves) so we don't know that there's nothing toxic in it-- outside of the obvious nicotine of course.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Can you clarify in what way this is not what you're doing?

Since you say you already knew all about e cigs before starting this, and are obviously hell bent on using this method despite what everyone's said about it, why start the thread to ask opinions? And just so you're aware, e cigs haven't actually been carefully evaluated yet by independent studies (i.e. not funded by the vape companies themselves) so we don't know that there's nothing toxic in it-- outside of the obvious nicotine of course.

Let me clarify this, I thought I have many times, I guess not. I don't have enough willpower for cold turkey. Chant made me a mad man. Patches made me sick. Other that I know have had success by using the ecig method of slowly lowering the content of nicotine until your nicotine free. IM hell hellbent on quitting nicotine. I want it out of my life, this method so far is working, no cigarettes in 5 days, no craving for a traditional cigarette. I have already lowered nicotine content to 12 with no side affects. Yes I like your opinions butterbumps, but frankly you come across as if you are the beginning and end of this conversation. I've never once, put down anything you say, but you continue to argue every comment I make. Does this get your rocks off or are does your ego only allow you to believe your way is the only way?

Its like you want to create an argument on everything I bring up. Are you the leader in the scientifical field of the pros and cons of ecigs. And of all methods of quitting smoking? IM open to your opinions, IM not very keen on you refuting everything I bring up and saying "MSJ, your wrong, IM right, why can't you see this? " when I don't feel that you are. You make some valid arguments, but assume your way is "The one true way." Butterbumps, everyone is physically and chemically different and the same way is not right for all.

And again as others have pointed out this is thread about E-cigs, and thought, opinions and helpful advice on e-cigs. Your the one steering the conversation to bloat your ego, that above all butterbumps is right.

Your more than welcome to continue in the conversation, but its seems your only goal is to convince poor ol' MSJ is wrong and blind to the brilliance intellect of butterbumps. I don't even remember if you quit smoking, if so. IM proud of you. You just have to realize that there are many wags to overcoming this nasty addiction and this is the method IM choosing. Why does that ruffle your feathers?

ETA: I have to say 95% of the people i talk with on here are very considerate, thought, intelligent, and above very nice and encouraging people. Why so some feel the need to argue about everything. That their opinion is a fact, when its just an opinion, and as my wonderful grandfather always said, "Son, opinions are like assholes, we all have one! ". So that being said how can anyone assume that their their opinion is the law, the truth an fact? Really people get over yourself.

[deleted01]

Smoking threads always end up in arguments.

I personally am not a fan of e-cigs. While cigarettes are harmful, at least I know they're harmful. I don't know enough about e-cigs to want to try them. It's just the same as trying a new diet pill. I want to see long-term, independent studies and thorough research.

That being said, if someone's decided to use them to stop smoking, good on you. I hope it works out. Not everyone can pick up a book and be inspired. Smokers can be the worst kind of people sometimes, particularly ex-smokers.

[paddington]

Smoking threads always end up in arguments.

I personally am not a fan of e-cigs. While cigarettes are harmful, at least I know they're harmful. I don't know enough about e-cigs to want to try them. It's just the same as trying a new diet pill. I want to see long-term, independent studies and thorough research.

That being said, if someone's decided to use them to stop smoking, good on you. I hope it works out. Not everyone can pick up a book and be inspired. Smokers can be the worst kind of people sometimes, particularly ex-smokers.

Haven't smoked for 2 months, I've been a heavy smoker for 25 years (40 a day). I went along to my chemist and they have been helping me out with patches. First thing I noticed pretty quickly after deciding to quit is that I feel brighter and less miserable, I am a good bit happier now than I've been for a long while. I didn't go with e-cigs mainly because it's replacing one addiction with another.

Big hurdle fo me was the expectation of it being hard and unpleasent to give up, which short of a few days over christmass it hasn't been.

[butterbumps!]

Let me clarify this, I thought I have many times, I guess not. I don't have enough willpower for cold turkey. Chant made me a mad man. Patches made me sick. Other that I know have had success by using the ecig method of slowly lowering the content of nicotine until your nicotine free. IM hell hellbent on quitting nicotine. I want it out of my life, this method so far is working, no cigarettes in 5 days, no craving for a traditional cigarette. I have already lowered nicotine content to 12 with no side affects. Yes I like your opinions butterbumps, but frankly you come across as if you are the beginning and end of this conversation. I've never once, put down anything you say, but you continue to argue every comment I make. Does this get your rocks off or are does your ego only allow you to believe your way is the only way?

Its like you want to create an argument on everything I bring up. Are you the leader in the scientifical field of the pros and cons of ecigs. And of all methods of quitting smoking? IM open to your opinions, IM not very keen on you refuting everything I bring up and saying "MSJ, your wrong, IM right, why can't you see this? " when I don't feel that you are. You make some valid arguments, but assume your way is "The one true way." Butterbumps, everyone is physically and chemically different and the same way is not right for all.

And again as others have pointed out this is thread about E-cigs, and thought, opinions and helpful advice on e-cigs. Your the one steering the conversation to bloat your ego, that above all butterbumps is right.

Your more than welcome to continue in the conversation, but its seems your only goal is to convince poor ol' MSJ is wrong and blind to the brilliance intellect of butterbumps. I don't even remember if you quit smoking, if so. IM proud of you. You just have to realize that there are many wags to overcoming this nasty addiction and this is the method IM choosing. Why does that ruffle your feathers?

ETA: I have to say 95% of the people i talk with on here are very considerate, thought, intelligent, and above very nice and encouraging people. Why so some feel the need to argue about everything. That their opinion is a fact, when its just an opinion, and as my wonderful grandfather always said, "Son, opinions are like assholes, we all have one! ". So that being said how can anyone assume that their their opinion is the law, the truth an fact? Really people get over yourself.

I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake of it, and it's really a shame you feel that way.

You created a thread asking for advice. You have then proceeded to post a lot of misinformed or otherwise problematic ideas, and responded to anything in contrast to your view with basically indifference (and now hostility). For a few examples:

- You posited that there is absolutely no toxin in e cigs. The truth is that we don't yet know if this the case, because independent tests to that effect do not exist yet.

- You say things like you're not substituting, but substituting one thing for another is, exactly, what you are doing. I don't care if you choose to quit this way. But to say this isn't what you're doing is incorrect. I spoke up because it seemed like you were somehow unaware of this.

- It seemed to go unnoticed that all the testimonials of "success" with e cigs on here were actually testimonials that the parties never ended up quitting using nicotine either regularly or on occasion.

If anyone here has been a proponent of the "one true way" it's you, as you've already made up your mind on your facts and method, and appear to have created the thread simply to get confirmation that e cigs are the way to go.

I'm sorry I wasted both of our times.

That being said, if someone's decided to use them to stop smoking, good on you. I hope it works out. Not everyone can pick up a book and be inspired. Smokers can be the worst kind of people sometimes, particularly ex-smokers.

I'm deeply sorry for pointing out the contradictory thoughts, misinformed positions, and attempt to encourage a less painful mindset to someone who started a thread ostensibly asking for such help.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

Butterbumps

I think I understand you point of view, but its the way you present it thats not helping. You seem to keep bashing MJS repeatedly over the head with arguments that basically amount to "I am right, you are wrong, your gonna fail. you should listen to me, ner ner ner" I know thats not what you mean, but thats how you are coming accross. Which makes people just want to ingore everything you say and do the complete opposite.

MJS came here for encouragement, and advice on Quitting using E-cigs.

You have stated you opinion and given advise on other methods. You have even provided evidcance. What MJS does with that is up to him. He already mentioned that he has ordered that book. - So he has taken some of your advise. You also said he can still smoke while reading the book, so whats it matter if he smokes E-cigs while doing it and not real ones?

MJS I have never smoked myself but know several people who have. I wish you much luck.

As for E-cigs as a method I know people who have quit temporarily with this, and some that have quit for so far good.

The ones that have the most effect is the ones that consider them as real Cigs, Gradually cut down, and always go outside and everything they would normally do when smoking a real cig.

The ones that had more differculty are the ones that pick up the E-cig more frequently than they would real cigs and smoke in places they where not allowed before.

[Tyria]

First, can we please stop with all the sniping? If something worked for you, great. Doesn’t mean it will work for everyone. I can’t use patches, because of eczema. My pharmacist told me there was a possibility that I would overdose. That I wouldn’t get a slow release of nicotine, but a wallop, due my wonky skin barrier. The gum didn’t work. I took Zyban for a month and quit for six, but that shit made me crazeballs. Couldn’t sleep, and when I did I had violent, vivid nightmares and would often sleepwalk. I woke up in different rooms all over the house (my roommates at the time found that hilarious), and outside of my house twice (that freaked them out). Fuck that shit.

So I’m giving e-cigs a go. Even my doctor said that even though it’s not ideal, it’s better than smoking. I just bought a new e-cig dealie, and it’s pretty neat. It has a hinge on it, so I can fold it in two to fit in my pocket. The last one I had was one that was about the size of a cigarette. I found that one really awkward. The battery part was too heavy, so I couldn’t hold it like a smoke. It didn’t give off much of a vapour, and it was a pain to fill. I barely used it.

My problem with the new e-cig is actually using it instead of grabbing a smoke. It’s so stupid. There will always be smokes in the house, because Mr. Tyr uses tobacco to mix with other, uh, stuff. I think I need to get him to hide them. We went for drinks with friends last night, and I only took the e-cig. It was fine, but in the back of my mind, I wanted a real smoke. Stupid.

Oh, and I’m someone who read the Allen Carr book. Twice. It didn’t work for me. He did make a lot of good points, but I found that he would sometimes come off as a patronizing dick, and it just put me off. It may work for others though, so you can give it a try. I have an e-copy that I can email, if anyone wants it.

[Tyria]

This is something that concerns me. The novelty of being able to "smoke" in pubs, shops, and other public places would probably make some people use the e-cig more often. I do see many people puffing away on them in places that I wouldn't be able to light up. Transport for London recently banned them on all train stations in London, I believe, just like normal cigarettes.

Where I live, e-cigs have the same indoor, public places restrictions as cigarettes. It pissed a lot of people off, but I think it's a good idea.

[lessthanluke]

This is something that concerns me. The novelty of being able to "smoke" in pubs, shops, and other public places would probably make some people use the e-cig more often. I do see many people puffing away on them in places that I wouldn't be able to light up. Transport for London recently banned them on all train stations in London, I believe, just like normal cigarettes.

Eta: Butterbumps - what Pebble said. Not keen on responding to this line of discussion any more due to the unfair personal attack accusation. This thread has already been warned once by a mod.

Ecigs are banned in a lot of pubs/shops.

[butterbumps!]

Thank you for your feedback all. Wasn't trying to simply force a book on anyone, or even come across as "I'm right, you're wrong."

Was trying to get at some of the underlying issues of smoking that I recognized from the OP. Not because "I'm right," but rather, it seemed like the OP was setting himself up less advantageously by subscribing to (nothing to do with the book--- all the posts toward the end were more general, and not method specific). I could have communicated that better.

Not that this is an excuse, but I don't typically post in Gen Chat or talk about personal stuff online. I think a topic like this deserved more attention to tone than I way giving it, as I wasn't thinking about the need for increased sensitivity in the topic. Sorry for the trouble and offense this caused. I was genuinely well-intended, but this came across poorly, and apologies for the bad feelings I caused.

ETA: about the book and it's being patronizing, I actually agree, and there are in fact quite a few parts of the book I strongly disagree with.

Eta: Butterbumps - what Pebble said. Not keen on responding to this line of discussion any more due to the unfair personal attack accusation. This thread has already been warned once by a mod.

Look-- you made a passive aggressive dig at me, and then immediately responded again by saying it's my habit to do this and that you won't talk to me right off the bat. I don't know what I've done to upset you in the past, but this is kind of a not so nice and fairly hypocritical thing to do in light of how your message is that I should be more mindful of how I'm coming across. That was definitely instigatory, and your tone makes it seem like I've done something really upsetting in the past. Further discussion doesn't belong in the thread, so if there's something I've done to make you feel this way, can we take it to PM?

[deleted01]

Ecigs are banned in a lot of pubs/shops.

Really? I didn't know that. Maybe people around here just don't care :laugh:

[lessthanluke]

Really? I didn't know that. Maybe people around here just don't care :laugh:

Yeah. I remember having to throw a guy out of the club I worked in last year because he wouldn't stop vaping. It's not actually illegal though obviously just up to the owners of the premise.