Manderly Gold

[Antler's Fury]

What happened to the gold that House Manderly brought with them to the North? ADWD says that the Starks took it from them in exchange for the land upon which White Harbor was built. Yet, TWOIAF says that the Manderlys used this gold to build White Harbor. So which is it?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Both at the same time. A city like White Harbor doesn't appear out of thin mist - but it yields a lot of taxes as soon as it is estalished.

[TheSovereignGrave]

The Starks took it, and then gave it to the Manderlies to build White Harbour.

[Antler's Fury]

Both at the same time. A city like White Harbor doesn't appear out of thin mist - but it yields a lot of taxes as soon as it is estalished.

But the money that the Manderlys gave the Starks was not White Harbor tax money, it was the gold they brought from the Reach.

The Starks took it, and then gave it to the Manderlies to build White Harbour.

Then why bother taking it if you're just going to give it back?

[AzureOwl]

Then why bother taking it if you're just going to give it back?

I imagine it was part of a symbolic gesture. The Manderlys arrive, present the gold to the King of the North put themselves at his mercy. Then the King of the North says, not only am I giving you sanctuary, I'm giving you land and here's your gold back so you build a city on it.

Would explain why the Manderlys are so loyal. They didn't just got sanctuary, they got lands and their gold back.

[JonathanTheBold]

But the money that the Manderlys gave the Starks was not White Harbor tax money, it was the gold they brought from the Reach.

Then why bother taking it if you're just going to give it back?

to get back more over time. it's like winning the lottery and take a yearly payment of $2m a year fo 20 years and just taking $20m up front

edit:

it's more like taking $2m a year forever or $20m up front

[Barty]

But the money that the Manderlys gave the Starks was not White Harbor tax money, it was the gold they brought from the Reach.

Then why bother taking it if you're just going to give it back?

Maybe they gave it back in the form of a loan. I believe its not uncommon for Lords paramount to give loans to their bannermen.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Since the Wolfs Den already existed, but had been conquered by enemies several times, the Starks probably gave the gold back so they could improve the defenses.

[The Wolves]

How does one go about making a huge piece of land that's been changed from hands to hands for thousands of years a thriving city/port?

And the Manderlys must have had ships cause it would probably been easier to go from the Reach to the North on ships than land during that time.

[Yukle]

How does one go about making a huge piece of land that's been changed from hands to hands for thousands of years a thriving city/port?

This is a problem that plagues real world civilisations, too. It isn't especially unrealistic, though, that a city could arise there.

Given enough time, the Manderleys would have had two fortified positions from which to launch assaults on anyone attempting to travel the White Knife without leave. Their seat isn't the entire city, rather it is New Castle within White Harbour. They'd likely have built their castle first and the city would've grown around it over time. It's mentioned that the Starks had contested control of the Three Sisters for centuries and warred with the Vale for it. However, it soon occurred to them that the holdings were hardly worth their effort and they stopped. This would've reduced the dangers of hostile ships travelling up the White Knife since they lost the Vale as an enemy (for the most part).

The Three Sisters were the chief danger to the North but the continuous wars between them and the Vale for control of the islands plundered their resources.

White Harbour arose because the seas around it became safer and because it was the second of two defensive positions at the mouth of the White Knife.

There's also the fact that the North almost certainly traded with is neighbours wherever possible. So much silver in the area would've meant that their neighbours wanted a city in the North to boost their own trade.

[The Wolves]

This is a problem that plagues real world civilisations, too. It isn't especially unrealistic, though, that a city could arise there.

Given enough time, the Manderleys would have had two fortified positions from which to launch assaults on anyone attempting to travel the White Knife without leave. Their seat isn't the entire city, rather it is New Castle within White Harbour. They'd likely have built their castle first and the city would've grown around it over time. It's mentioned that the Starks had contested control of the Three Sisters for centuries and warred with the Vale for it. However, it soon occurred to them that the holdings were hardly worth their effort and they stopped. This would've reduced the dangers of hostile ships travelling up the White Knife since they lost the Vale as an enemy (for the most part).

The Three Sisters were the chief danger to the North but the continuous wars between them and the Vale for control of the islands plundered their resources.

White Harbour arose because the seas around it became safer and because it was the second of two defensive positions at the mouth of the White Knife.

There's also the fact that the North almost certainly traded with is neighbours wherever possible. So much silver in the area would've meant that their neighbours wanted a city in the North to boost their own trade.

Thanks for explaining it to me.

[Jaak]

What was the market price at which House Stark sold the White Harbour domain of 12 lordships and 100 landed knights? Dragons did not then exist, but Reach hands did, and the weight/exchange rate of hands and dragons has been mentioned.

So, how does the acquisition price of Manderly domain compare with the 6 million dragon debt of King Robert, or 3 million dragons owed to Casterly Rock, or 900 000 of Faith?

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

What was the market price at which House Stark sold the White Harbour domain of 12 lordships and 100 landed knights? Dragons did not then exist, but Reach hands did, and the weight/exchange rate of hands and dragons has been mentioned.

So, how does the acquisition price of Manderly domain compare with the 6 million dragon debt of King Robert, or 3 million dragons owed to Casterly Rock, or 900 000 of Faith?

You might want to ask GRRM that mate :P