Dawn

[Ser Hightower]

Here is what we know about the history of Dawn:

1. Dawn remains at Starfall, until another Sword of the Morning shall arise. – GRRM.

2. It is wielded by “The Sword of the Morning.”

a. Only a knight of House Dayne who is deemed worthy can carry it. For this reason, the Swords of the Morning are all famous throughout the Seven Kingdoms. If there is no Dayne knight considered worthy, the title lies dormant; the last to bear the title was Ser Arthur Dayne, a famed knight of the Kingsguard. – ASOIAF WIKI

b. The only other known previous Swords of the Morning are:

i. Ser Davos Dayne

ii. Ser Ulrick Dayne

c. Its origins are lost to legend, but it seems likely that the Daynes have carried it for thousands of years. – ASOIAF WIKI

3. Upon the death of Arthur Dayne, Ned Stark returned Dawn to Starfall as what most suspect was due to:

a. Ned’s respect for Arthur.

b. The general honorability of Ned.

Here is what we know about the appearance of Dawn:

1. It is a great-sword.

2. The blade is as pale as milkglass, looking like no Valyrian blade, yet sharing all of the properties, being incredibly strong and sharp. – ASOIAF WIKI

3. It is said to be made from metal forged from the heart of a fallen star.

Here are the only known living male Dayne’s:

1. Edric “Ned” Dayne

a. Lord of Starfall and head of House Dayne. His father, whose name is unknown, was the elder brother of Ser Arthur, Lady Ashara and Lady Allyria Dayne.

b. The last we hear of Edric is he parts ways with the Brotherhood without Banners upon the death (permanent) death of Beric Dondarrion. As he chooses not to follow Lady Stoneheart. à More on what this could signify later.

2. Gerold “Darkstar” Dayne

a. The head of a knightly cadet branch of House Dayne.

b. The last we hear of Darkstar is he is on the run after the attempted murder of Myrcella Baratheon.

Edric vs. Darkstar

If Dawn must be wielded by a Dayne, immediately it’s pretty obvious who the natural candidate is. Edric is a squire for the honorable Beric Dondarrion fighting for what is good and just. However, when the vengeful Lady Stoneheart takes over, it doesn’t sit well with Edric and he parts ways.

While Darkstar is attempting to murder unarmed little Girls.

This isn’t world breaking news – most readers fully expect for Edric to wield Dawn and be named the next “Sword of the Morning.”

Tinfoil

Dawn is rumored to have been in possession of the Dayne family for thousands of years, and over the course of those thousands of years there have been only three Dayne’s to wield it. However we expect a 12 year old boy only a generation removed from the last Sword of the Morning to carry it by the end of the series? That does not make much sense to me.

There is no doubt in my mind that Darkstar is not worthy of the sword and Edric, while likeable, seems like a stretch to carry it as well.

I know people have come up with theories that maybe Dawn = Lightbringer, and the Dayne’s really are only placeholders until Azor Ahai returns, but it still doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

So I pose the question:

What role will Dawn play and do you believe it’ll actually be Edric who wields the sword in the Battle for Dawn?

[Lord Lannister]

Honestly I think Dawn, the Sword of the Morning, the Daynes and all their close interactions with the Starks are just a huge Red Herring to detract people away from R+L=J

[Ser Joe the Unknighted]

There have been more than three Swords of the Morning but those are the only three whose name we have. The title is rarely bestowed but not that rarely and if any time is going to have a Sword of the Morning bearing Dawn it will be during the Battle for the Dawn against the armies of Darkness.

I strongly suspect that Dawn was the sword that the legend of the Last Hero with his sword of Dragon Steel and Azor Ahai and his magical sword Lightbringer were based off of and that the Daynes are the descendants of the sword's bearer. The Daynes look Valyrian but they are a first men house and George has acknowledged that genetics don't work the same in his world as the real world. The Daynes may be from the Great Empire of the Dawn from the Dawn days that were ruled by the Jewel emperors. Dawn is said to be "alive with light" (although in a trippy dream) and is incredibly ancient.

[Ser Hightower]

Honestly I think Dawn, the Sword of the Morning, the Daynes and all their close interactions with the Starks are just a huge Red Herring to detract people away from R+L=J

I never thought about it that way, but so made is much about Arthur Dayne and the TOJ that I feel like it has to mean something other than a red herring.

There have been more than three Swords of the Morning but those are the only three whose name we have. The title is rarely bestowed but not that rarely and if any time is going to have a Sword of the Morning bearing Dawn it will be during the Battle for the Dawn against the armies of Darkness.

I strongly suspect that Dawn was the sword that the legend of the Last Hero with his sword of Dragon Steel and Azor Ahai and his magical sword Lightbringer were based off of and that the Daynes are the descendants of the sword's bearer. The Daynes look Valyrian but they are a first men house and George has acknowledged that genetics don't work the same in his world as the real world. The Daynes may be from the Great Empire of the Dawn from the Dawn days that were ruled by the Jewel emperors. Dawn is said to be "alive with light" (although in a trippy dream) and is incredibly ancient.

It could explain the odd relationship the Starks had with the Daynes.

[pigpiginsunspear]

I'm pretty sure there were more than three total "Swords of the Morning" (there was a "Sword of the Evening" and "Starfire"). There just isn't a list of them.

Any idea how a Sword of the Morning is picked? I don't want to hijack this thread, will start a new one.

[Ser Hightower]

I'm pretty sure there were more than three total "Swords of the Morning" (there was a "Sword of the Evening" and "Starfire"). There just isn't a list of them.

Any idea how a Sword of the Morning is picked? I don't want to hijack this thread, will start a new one.

I don't mind you hijacking - it's basically the premise of the thread: Who gets Dawn and how? It just seems strange that if there were more than the three that are listed, why aren't they remembered? They can remember a Sword of the Morning from a thousand years ago but not one from 500? Who was the original? I think House Dayne has a huge role to play.

[Ser Hightower]

Double Post.

[Ser Pip]

The stone from which Dawn was apparently made is said to have " magical powers" . Any thoughts on what, if any, these may have been? It may shed some light on it's purpose or past.

[Dornish Whine]

I always assumed that Darkstar was on his way to steal Dawn. He seems to have animosity towards the mention of the last Sword of the Morning and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt he had something to prove by grabbing Dawn and wielding it despite his "rightfulness". This will probably end badly for him and the result will be Dawn finding its way to AAR.

[Ser Hightower]

I always assumed that Darkstar was on his way to steal Dawn. He seems to have animosity towards the mention of the last Sword of the Morning and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt he had something to prove by grabbing Dawn and wielding it despite his "rightfulness". This will probably end badly for him and the result will be Dawn finding its way to AAR.

Is he a good enough fighter to waltz into Starfall and steal their most prized possession?

[Shuvuuia]

I always assumed that Darkstar was on his way to steal Dawn. He seems to have animosity towards the mention of the last Sword of the Morning and I wouldn't be surprised if he felt he had something to prove by grabbing Dawn and wielding it despite his "rightfulness". This will probably end badly for him and the result will be Dawn finding its way to AAR.

I wonder if it would make sense for Darkstar, instead of simply stealing Dawn, to marry Allyria, maybe even marry into the family if he isn't the heir of High Hermitage and try to claim the sword through marriage. It obviously won't make him worthy of it, but would be better than outright theft.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I wonder if it would make sense for Darkstar, instead of simply stealing Dawn, to marry Allyria, maybe even marry into the family if he isn't the heir of High Hermitage and try to claim the sword through marriage. It obviously won't make him worthy of it, but would be better than outright theft.

Who would want to marry him? He's wanted for the attempted murder of Princess Myrcella, hates Arthur Dayne and says he is of the night. He is not worthy of the sword, I don't think House Dayne would deem him worthy of marriage.

[Shuvuuia]

Who would want to marry him? He's wanted for the attempted murder of Princess Myrcella, hates Arthur Dayne and says he is of the night. He is not worthy of the sword, I don't think House Dayne would deem him worthy of marriage.

I don't remember, is his attempt on Myrcella's life already wildly known? And are there many Daynes left? Edric is a kid, Allyria probably not much older. Darkstar can pretend to like Arthur for a time. Obviously he is not worthy, but he is supposed to be charming and over-confident, so maybe he hopes to charm everyone at Starfall (doesn't mean it would work).

[Ser Hightower]

I don't remember, is his attempt on Myrcella's life already wildly known? And are there many Daynes left? Edric is a kid, Allyria probably not much older. Darkstar can pretend to like Arthur for a time. Obviously he is not worthy, but he is supposed to be charming and over-confident, so maybe he hopes to charm everyone at Starfall (doesn't mean it would work).

If Doran knows then the most important people in Dorne probably also know. So yes I'd say it's widespread.

[Shuvuuia]

If Doran knows then the most important people in Dorne probably also know. So yes I'd say it's widespread.

I just thought maybe Doran decided to keep it a secret for a time.

On topic: I also think Edric is too young to wield Dawn. I'm not sure the sword will play any significant role in the current story, but possibly Edric will become the Sword of Morning in the future if there is an epilogue.

[BalerionTheCat]

Normally the Lord of a house carries the sword of his house. Why would it be different for the Daynes? OK, the sword is special. But nonetheless, would it not make sense, if the Daynes were the guardians of the sword, and were allowed to wield it only exceptionally? Maybe they found the star, and that is why they keep the sword. But the legitimate wielder was AA.

Ned would keep the sword now, but not wield it. He was Dondarrion's squire. Could he become the squire of AA Reborn, and bring the sword to him?

The words of house Dayne are unknown. And apparently, it would be a spoiler. But likely, the words are referring to the sword. Maybe the words say the Daynes are its keepers, or they are waiting AA return.

[Ser Hightower]

Normally the Lord of a house carries the sword of his house. Why would it be different for the Daynes? OK, the sword is special. But nonetheless, would it not make sense, if the Daynes were the guardians of the sword, and were allowed to wield it only exceptionally? Maybe they found the star, and that is why they keep the sword. But the legitimate wielder was AA.

Ned would keep the sword now, but not wield it. He was Dondarrion's squire. Could he become the squire of AA Reborn, and bring the sword to him?

The words of house Dayne are unknown. And apparently, it would be a spoiler. But likely, the words are referring to the sword. Maybe the words say the Daynes are its keepers, or they are waiting AA return.

I'm starting to believe more and more that Dayne's are nothing but keepers of the sword and like you said, are temporarily allowed to wield it if the knight is sufficient enough.

[_Arthur_Dayne_]

A Dayne forged the sword in the first place, and build a castle where the star has fallen, naming it Starfall.

I don't think Daynes are merely keepers of this sword.

Anyway, about the hilt of Dawn: since the ancient origin of this sword, I believe it couldn't have a crossguard like any other "modern" sword.

Probably it's something like this:

http://www.medieval-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/SH2408-920-1.jpg

What do you think?

[BalerionTheCat]

A Dayne forged the sword in the first place, and build a castle where the star has fallen, naming it Starfall.

I don't think Daynes are merely keepers of this sword.

The forging itself is interesting. The sword is similar to the Valyrians. But much before Valyria. And the First Men were not even working normal steel. So, how the sword was made? IMO, the only thing apparently related is the forging of Lightbringer by AA. The first Dayne tracked a falling star, but nothing guarantee he forged the sword.