The Agency of Sansa Stark Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Troll feeding in progress I know. I try to ignore them but it's hard sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 It's pretty understandable, it's one thing to be denied vengeance when the Kingslayer's a valuable prisoner. It's another to be denied it when the King's mother sets him free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 He had the same madness which Catelyn was accused of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Agency of Sansa Stark Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 It was selfish on Cats part. If she was delusional enough to think the war was just about liberating her daughters it just proves how inept she was in life. Now she's just a vengeful corpse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 It was selfish on Cats part. If she was delusional enough to think the war was just about liberating her daughters it just proves how inept she was in life. Now she's just a vengeful corpse Rickard was delusional enough to think the war was only about vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 He had the same madness which Catelyn was accused of. The funny part is, she denied that it was a 'madness' that made her do it. She owned her actions and was wiling to accept whatever the consequence was, and Robb did not name it treason. Karstark was unwilling to admit any fault under the excuse of his vengeance for his sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I know. I try to ignore them but it's hard sometimes yeah okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Agency of Sansa Stark Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 yeah okay Your gif game is weak son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 In addition to what the others said there is also the issue of how his actions put in jeopardy his remaining son and daughter. Ending up dead, his family in danger, promising his daughter to whoever would kill Jaime, with someone like Vargo wanting the price and she ends up running to Jon Snow in Dance to escape from Arnolf Karkstark's machinations to marry her to his son. Richard's uncle Arnolf Karkstark declares for Stannis hoping that when the Iron throne will learn of it, they will execute Richard's son Harrion and marry his son to Allys. Now, if he had lost everything, he still would be wrong, but it would be more understandable, but he still had a son, albeit imprisoned, though if he succeeded at killing Jaime they would probably had executed his son in return, and he also had a daughter. What value he gave to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Rickard was delusional enough to think the war was only about vengeance.Why do questions like this always turn into taking sides? Clearly, both Cat and Rickard were in the wrong here. Saying that Cat was delusional doesn't in any way absolve Rickard. Saying Rickard was delusional doesn't in any way absolve Cat. I don't see how the one is even relevant to the other at all. And, in the same way, acknowledging that Rickard was in the wrong here doesn't mean that everything he ever did was evil, and the same goes for Cat. Over the course of their stories, they both did some good things and some bad things, for some good reasons and some bad reasons, because they're both realistically-painted and very human characters. What is there to argue about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The funny part is, she denied that it was a 'madness' that made her do it. She owned her actions and was wiling to accept whatever the consequence was, and Robb did not name it treason. Karstark was unwilling to admit any fault under the excuse of his vengeance for his sons.Well he didn't name it treason as she was his mother.It was treason though.Anyone else would have done that they would have been short a head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Very but it's understandable he just lost 2 sons and saw the guy who killed them set free by his kings mother I'd probably irrational and murderous as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Well he didn't name it treason as she was his mother.It was treason though.Anyone else would have done that they would have been short a head. He was the king and did not name it treason. So it was not treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 He was the king and did not name it treason. So it was not treason. It was going against everything the king wanted that's treason even if the kings doesn't punish you for it it was still treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Why do questions like this always turn into taking sides? Clearly, both Cat and Rickard were in the wrong here. Saying that Cat was delusional doesn't in any way absolve Rickard. Saying Rickard was delusional doesn't in any way absolve Cat. I don't see how the one is even relevant to the other at all. And, in the same way, acknowledging that Rickard was in the wrong here doesn't mean that everything he ever did was evil, and the same goes for Cat. Over the course of their stories, they both did some good things and some bad things, for some good reasons and some bad reasons, because they're both realistically-painted and very human characters. What is there to argue about here? My reply was because said point was used as an argument. Cat being delusional is irrelevant to this argument at all as you said. Rickard is accountable for his irresponsible actions and Cat should not be used as an excuse for his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Joffrey was king and he did not name the RW a violation of guest right, therefor it was not a violation of guest right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Bane Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 rickard was being ridiculous but really half the people who had a position of power were being ridiculous. robbs repeated bad choices caused the downfall of his house, cat let jaime go on her own accord, rickard killed people (and got himself killed in the process) because he felt it was vengeance, edmure defied orders and so on. people hate the boltons and freys for the red wedding but they seemed to be the only smart ones of the bunch imo. breaking guest right is a horrible offense in westeros but it also meant that their houses wouldnt be potentially wiped out of existence because of other peoples poor decisions. You make some very good points. Robb let his mother off the hook for releasing the most valuable hostage of the war. Tywin would have made very big compromises short of handing over Joffrey to get Jaime back. What Catelyn did was much worse than what Lord Karstark did, in terms of the war effort and it hurt their side more. If Robb was willing to overlook that, he should have been willing to overlook Karstark's actions. It's one thing to hand out justice, but you have to apply justice fairly, otherwise it's not really justice. Robb failed to uphold the standard. Punishing one person and letting another go is not maintaining standard. Add the fact that he just betrayed his most valuable ally just to marry a woman he loved. It's not hard to see that Walder and Roose would want to bail out on him. Rickard's grief was understandable; however, he needed to put that aside and look at the big picture. Jaime is more valuable to them alive than dead. Should the tide of war turn against them, they could have used Jaime to bargain for terms with the Lannisters. The question really isn't, "did Rickard deserve beheading?". It should have been, "should Rickard lose his head, given that another rule-breaker is going to get away unpunished?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Agency of Sansa Stark Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 He was the king and did not name it treason. So it was not treason. Right.. And NED died a traitor and Joffrey died a king. Things aren't akways what they seem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Agency of Sansa Stark Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 He was the king and did not name it treason. So it was not treason. Right.. And NED died a traitor and Joffrey died a king. Things aren't akways what they seem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 It was going against everything the king wanted that's treason even if the kings doesn't punish you for it it was still treason. No, because the law starts and ends with the king. Robb had no magna carta or bill of rights. He had his own plans in mind, though it seems none in place for Jaime, but bottom line, his own judgment is what determines the situation. He would not allow her to be called a traitor. He actually sought her own forgiveness when introducing Jeyne during this incident. She knew she had made a mistake in his eyes and he in hers. But again, if the king does not name it treason it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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