The Ice Wolf of Loki Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 the man is a legend. "Kill me and be cursed. You are no king of mine" The man is an idiot, the enemy hold his son and he goes and kills the hostages they were negotiating to swap for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 the man is a legend. "Kill me and be cursed. You are no king of mine" Yeah what a "badass," stabbing a couple of kids in their beds. It never fails to amaze me what people think is "awesome" in this series.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If we want to really analyze his "reasonableness" then we must take a closer look at his stance . He has four kids. Two that die by the hand of Jaime in battle, one gets captured, and the last is in Karhold. The prospect of avenging his sons then takes precedence over the well being of his remaining children for some reason. He will risk Harrion's death just to kill Jaime, and even offer up his daughter as a wife to whomever kills or brings him Jaime later on. Is that grief talking or a weird idea that he sees the death of his two sons as something of a blight on the Karstark name that must be scrubbed out at all cost? Whatever it is he is willing to expend the rest of his children in some form, be it his son's life or latching his daughter to someone that could end up being a destitute thug (whereas she once had the option of marrying landed nobility), just so he can say "I avenged Eddard and Torrhen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If we want to really analyze his "reasonableness" then we must take a closer look at his stance . He has four kids. Two that die by the hand of Jaime in battle, one gets captured, and the last is in Karhold. The prospect of avenging his sons then takes precedence over the well being of his remaining children for some reason. He will risk Harrion's death just to kill Jaime, and even offer up his daughter as a wife to whomever kills or brings him Jaime later on. Is that grief talking or a weird idea that he sees the death of his two sons as something of a blight on the Karstark name that must be scrubbed out at all cost? Whatever it is he is willing to expend the rest of his children in some form, be it his son's life or latching his daughter to someone that could end up being a destitute thug (whereas she once had the option of marrying landed nobility), just so he can say "I avenged Eddard and Torrhen". This. Also this is the major difference between Catelyn and him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ice Wolf of Loki Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 ... or latching his daughter to someone that could end up being a destitute thug (whereas she once had the option of marrying landed nobility), To be fair if Harrion is dead Alys is heir to Karhold and her husband will be Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If we want to really analyze his "reasonableness" then we must take a closer look at his stance . He has four kids. Two that die by the hand of Jaime in battle, one gets captured, and the last is in Karhold. The prospect of avenging his sons then takes precedence over the well being of his remaining children for some reason. He will risk Harrion's death just to kill Jaime, and even offer up his daughter as a wife to whomever kills or brings him Jaime later on. Is that grief talking or a weird idea that he sees the death of his two sons as something of a blight on the Karstark name that must be scrubbed out at all cost? Whatever it is he is willing to expend the rest of his children in some form, be it his son's life or latching his daughter to someone that could end up being a destitute thug (whereas she once had the option of marrying landed nobility), just so he can say "I avenged Eddard and Torrhen". Excellent! Well saidTo be fair if Harrion is dead Alys is heir to Karhold and her husband will be Lord. He wouldn't control Karhold or have claim to it though. I'd be more worried about the suitability of his breeding. Not to be snobby, but if you offer your daughter (& potential heir) up to just anyone, you could wind up with ANYONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purrl1 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If we want to really analyze his "reasonableness" then we must take a closer look at his stance . He has four kids. Two that die by the hand of Jaime in battle, one gets captured, and the last is in Karhold. The prospect of avenging his sons then takes precedence over the well being of his remaining children for some reason. He will risk Harrion's death just to kill Jaime, and even offer up his daughter as a wife to whomever kills or brings him Jaime later on. Is that grief talking or a weird idea that he sees the death of his two sons as something of a blight on the Karstark name that must be scrubbed out at all cost? Whatever it is he is willing to expend the rest of his children in some form, be it his son's life or latching his daughter to someone that could end up being a destitute thug (whereas she once had the option of marrying landed nobility), just so he can say "I avenged Eddard and Torrhen". Exactly!! If Rickard Karstark actually cared about his sons so much, he wouldn't want to risk his last remaining son, Harrion, being killed in retaliation for the murders of Lannister hostages. Karstark cares more about his pride than about his children--which is the exact opposite of Cat, who will do what it takes to restore peace and get her daughters back, even if it means humbling herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Exactly!! If Rickard Karstark actually cared about his sons so much, he wouldn't want to risk his last remaining son, Harrion, being killed in retaliation for the murders of Lannister hostages. Karstark cares more about his pride than about his children--which is the exact opposite of Cat, who will do what it takes to restore peace and get her daughters back, even if it means humbling herself. I asked what about harrion and was told I was being ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yeah what a "badass," stabbing a couple of kids in their beds. It never fails to amaze me what people think is "awesome" in this series.... This. Plus trying to avoid a deserved execution by coming up with laughable excuses like kinslaying (he and Robb are very distant cousins which is not kinslaying in Westeros) is the exact opposite of badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Eh? I feel Karstark had a good reason to be angry. If Cat was anyone else she'd have diedfor what she'd done. If Rickard was anyone else, no one would care that his two sons died in battle and mouthing off about it to the King would have earned him a one-way trip to the dungeons. This is a medieval setting. Nepotism is the norm, I don't see why Cat being spared execution is out of the ordinary. Of course Robb isn't going to execute his mother. To say nothing of the fact that her crime is much less vile than Rickard's, and ultimately less politically stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If Rickard was anyone else, no one would care that his two sons died in battle and mouthing off about it to the King would have earned him a one-way trip to the dungeons. This is a medieval setting. Nepotism is the norm, I don't see why Cat being spared execution is out of the ordinary. Of course Robb isn't going to execute his mother. To say nothing of the fact that her crime is much less vile than Rickard's, and ultimately less politically stupid. Releasing the enemies son for no hope of your daughter prisoner getting released who even if she was released would be politically pointless for you is very politically stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryLittleGravitasIndeed Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If Rickard was anyone else, no one would care that his two sons died in battle and mouthing off about it to the King would have earned him a one-way trip to the dungeons. This is a medieval setting. Nepotism is the norm, I don't see why Cat being spared execution is out of the ordinary. Of course Robb isn't going to execute his mother. To say nothing of the fact that her crime is much less vile than Rickard's, and ultimately less politically stupid. Karstark was a lord. Considering the greater context of the war and the whole marriage promise breach debacle Cat getting off but a lord getting punished is out of the ordinary because Robb's weak enough that he needs every individual lord to support him. Of course Robb gets his at the Red Wedding where his policy of not caring about the wishes of his lords gets him and his men slaughtered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beautiful Balon Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Excellent! Well said He wouldn't control Karhold or have claim to it though. I'd be more worried about the suitability of his breeding. Not to be snobby, but if you offer your daughter (& potential heir) up to just anyone, you could wind up with ANYONE! Vargo Hoat would be a perfect lord of Karlhold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 He wouldn't control Karhold or have claim to it though. I'd be more worried about the suitability of his breeding. Not to be snobby, but if you offer your daughter (& potential heir) up to just anyone, you could wind up with ANYONE! Even a bloody wildling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Vargo Hoat would be a perfect lord of Karlhold My point exactly.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Rickard strikes to me as an odd and clumsy character. For starters, why would he bring all his sons to Robb´s war and leave no inmediate male heir in Karhold, in case some catastrope occurs to him, his heirs and the potentials heirs. Harry gets captured, his sons killed, and then he promises Alys hand to whoever brings him the Kingslayer. WTF? What if Jaime gets captured by some lowborn or something? Rickards own uncle then plots to dispose of Harry in favour of his own interests. Quite a family if you ask me. I hope we learn even more about the Karstarks. Sounds like a weird family. IDK. Did he already suspect about his uncles intentions? Is that why he brought all his sons to war, to get them away from KarholdI? Did he knew nothing at all? I remember reading his descriptions in Cat POV. He was disperse, nearly mad with grief. I think that is the simple explanation for his slaying of children and sabotaging his own heir exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If Rickard was anyone else, no one would care that his two sons died in battle and mouthing off about it to the King would have earned him a one-way trip to the dungeons. This is a medieval setting. Nepotism is the norm, I don't see why Cat being spared execution is out of the ordinary. Of course Robb isn't going to execute his mother. To say nothing of the fact that her crime is much less vile than Rickard's, and ultimately less politically stupid. When did I say it's out of the ordinary? I said I understand why he's angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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