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How unreasonable was Rickard Karstark?


The Dragons Hand

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Tell that to barristan blount and the Hound.

 

When Barristan was dismissed, nobody out of KL knew it. It's fair to think that everyone thought Jaime wouldn't have a possibility in leaving the KG. Besides, it was Cersei's decision, Tywin was far to be happy with it. So yeah, thanks to Cersei, KG doesn't mean anything anymore. 

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Might be. But they have THREE SONS and ONE DAUGHTER, I'm sure they can marry few of them, make the Lannister bite the dust, and have one of their offspring in a good position? Since Joffrey and cie are not even rightful heirs, I'm sure something could have been done.


You realize by the time Sansa would of reached them that the Lannisters and Tyrells have already joined forces?
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Might be. But they have THREE SONS and ONE DAUGHTER, I'm sure they can marry few of them, make the Lannister bite the dust, and have one of their offspring in a good position? Since Joffrey and cie are not even rightful heirs, I'm sure something could have been done. 


Well you're wrong the only way the Tyrells even end up on the same team as the Starks is if somehow stannis wins and manages to kill both joffrey and Tommen while making robb hostile.
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No. That is your unsubstantiated opinion. I stated what I wanted on the previous page.

 

Not every action in the books has to be explained with a convoluted theory that has little to no basis in the text.

 

Sometimes grief really does drive a person to do irrational acts they would never do otherwise. I've seen that firsthand.

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Not enough peeople putting themselves in Rickard's shoes, IMO.
 
At that point in ASOS it was clear that Robb was going to lose the war, which means Rickard's sons sacrificed their lives for nothing. And the woman who released their killer suffered no punishment. What father wouldn't want to make sure the Lannisters at least suffered losses of their own, after everything they had done?


As a parent I feel much more anger towards that child murdering asshole than empathy for him.

You don't kill other people's kids in "revenge" for your adult children getting themselves killed. Any parent would understand that. Karstark was a disgusting coward and no parent worth the name.
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It was irrationall for him to kill them being that they were just young squires and not having anything to do with the war. If they were lords or knights it would have also been irrational because they are prisoners of the Starks and could have possibly have been ransomed but it would more understandable because they have played more of a role in the war. Also I really respect Robb for executing Karstark
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Killing Jaime would do the exact same thing that killing Ned did.  Nothing but ensuring continued bloodshed.  

 

Not exactly. Rickard would've slept better at night, the Karstarks wouldn't have gone home..and Robb would have won the war :leaving:

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Kind of OT, but I think Rickard Karstark probably embodies the old Kings of Winter far more than Robb does. 

 

:agree: And I'd be willing to bet anything that his namesake, Rickard Stark, would have been a Winter King in the field. I love Ned, adore him, but he didn't have the wolf blood in him.

 

I'm in the midst of a re-read and a series rewatch. I always leaned a bit toward Rickard's POV, but now, I totally see Rickard Karstark's position. The inner fangirl in me loves Jaime redemption and Jaime/Brienne, but pre-Brienne, he deserve every bit of Karstark justice he could have gotten. Of course, I have the advantage of knowing that Arya is safe, and I believe that LF would've gotten Sansa out before TSHTF if Jaime's head rolled, but from the Karstark position, his king and liege lord badly used him. And it just isn't very Starkish behavior, for the old Kings of Winter would've hung Jaime's guts like garters from the Winterfell godswood. *shuddering a little* *scary*

 

Roose was also paying careful attention to Robb's words and actions throughout the Wot5K. He betrayed Robb when he sensed weakness. Not sure he would have dared otherwise. And his actions toward the Karstarks were just rookie mistakes.

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:agree: And I'd be willing to bet anything that his namesake, Rickard Stark, would have been a Winter King in the field. I love Ned, adore him, but he didn't have the wolf blood in him.

 

I'm in the midst of a re-read and a series rewatch. I always leaned a bit toward Rickard's POV, but now, I totally see Rickard Karstark's position. The inner fangirl in me loves Jaime redemption and Jaime/Brienne, but pre-Brienne, he deserve every bit of Karstark justice he could have gotten. Of course, I have the advantage of knowing that Arya is safe, and I believe that LF would've gotten Sansa out before TSHTF if Jaime's head rolled, but from the Karstark position, his king and liege lord badly used him. And it just isn't very Starkish behavior, for the old Kings of Winter would've hung Jaime's guts like garters from the Winterfell godswood. *shuddering a little* *scary*

 

Roose was also paying careful attention to Robb's words and actions throughout the Wot5K. He betrayed Robb when he sensed weakness. Not sure he would have dared otherwise. And his actions toward the Karstarks were just rookie mistakes.

 

I see Karstark's position in the way that he killed the two boys out of grief. I don't see how killing Jaime would be an act of justice. His two sons were killed in battle; Jaime did not murder him. 

Jaime did indeed commit other crimes: the attempted murder of Bran, incest, ... But no Karstark was a victim of those crimes. So I don't see how it would be justice? 

Jaime was a prisoner of war, a valuable one. And while Cat should never have released him, it would be totally a mistake to kill him/execute him, in the same way as murdering Ned was. 

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Thats tv show not book


You're thinking of the show. Nothing in this post is true in the books


I don't think so. It's true that no mention of such a campaign happened in the books, and that Robb intended to go North to deal with the Ironborn. But the war in the South would have become his concern once more as soon as conditions permitted, and the Rock is the most logical place to strike. Considering how quickly the Bolton's handled the Ironborn invasion, it wouldn't have taken long for Robb to deal with them. How many times more men did he have than Bolton?

The Lannisters are not broke in the books. Far from it. GRRM reacted to the show invention about their  mines being dry.


My mistake, but that's even better. Instead of finding out the Lannisters are broke, Robb has their gold.

Robb never had a plan to take Casterly Rock. Probably because it's basically impossible. Robb could never do it. Visenya on dragonback didn't think she could do it.


It is likely that its defences have never truly been tested. Who's to say whether or not Robb might have found the supposed secret entrance Lann the clever is said to have used? Most of Tywin's army was committed elsewhere and the castle wouldn't have more than a skeleton defence.
Even if the Rock itself wasn't able to be taken, there is Lannisport.
Regardless, if Robb had headed that way, Tywin would have retreated immediately with everything he had. He couldn't afford to take any chances. There are all sorts of possible ways to take advantage when you are forcing your opponents hand.
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