David Selig Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Jaime is a peerless warrior and skilled commander, Sansa is a bargaining chip for a marriage and Arya is useless Actually having Jaime the idiot in charge of any Tywin is good news for Robb. Chances are he's dumber and more arrogant than any other possible candidate for command of a Lannister army though admittedly Tywin managed to find someone even dumber in Stafford due to his extreme nepotism streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The potential benefits of the plan - all of which were extreme longshots, no matter what you try to claim to the contrary - all related to saving her own daugthers. None related to serving the war effort. In fact, it directly weakened the war effort significantly. As such, she deserved severe punishment as a traitor. How would you have punished cat? Robb cant kill her unless he wanted to lose even faster. He could've imprisoned but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Faceless-Woman Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Sansa is actually a better bargaining chip than Jaime. She's one of Robb's heirs, and she can marry into a great family to bring more swords. Jaime is just a useless arrogant sisterf*cker that cannot even inherit Casterly Rock, nor marry, since he's in the kingsguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Sansa is actually a better bargaining chip than Jaime. She's one of Robb's heirs, and she can marry into a great family to bring more swords. Jaime is just a useless arrogant sisterf*cker that cannot even inherit Casterly Rock, nor marry, since he's in the kingsguard. But there's no great family to marry into the Tyrells already are on the other team, there's no Arryn's, the martells are too far away then on the other team, the baratheons are already fighting you with no marriages possible, the greyjoys are maybe a possibility maybe, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Sansa is actually a better bargaining chip than Jaime. She's one of Robb's heirs, and she can marry into a great family to bring more swords. Jaime is just a useless arrogant sisterf*cker that cannot even inherit Casterly Rock, nor marry, since he's in the kingsguard. Useless? He's the best swordsman in the realm, who cut down three Northern nobles, and won two battles against the Riverland forces. And the Starks don't know that Jaime can't inherit. Did you forget that Barristan was dismissed from the KG? Who's to say the same couldn't happen for Jaime? The only hostage the Lannisters could have had that would be as valuable as Jaime would be Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 But there's no great family to marry into the Tyrells already are on the other team, there's no Arryn's, the martells are too far away then on the other team, the baratheons are already fighting you with no marriages possible, the greyjoys are maybe a possibility maybe, Exactly, at best she could be used to try and bait a Vale Lord into joining them but that probably won't even work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 But there's no great family to marry into the Tyrells already are on the other team, there's no Arryn's, the martells are too far away then on the other team, the baratheons are already fighting you with no marriages possible, the greyjoys are maybe a possibility maybe, Did Sweetrobin die in ACOK in your version of the books or something? :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Faceless-Woman Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 But there's no great family to marry into the Tyrells already are on the other team, there's no Arryn's, the martells are too far away then on the other team, the baratheons are already fighting you with no marriages possible, the greyjoys are maybe a possibility maybe, The Tyrells have 3 sons, and none were engaged to any of the Lannisters if I recall correctly. Besides, they could have made common cause had Renly not died in this tent by a stupid babyshadow. Even with Renly death actually, a deal could have been made with the Tyrells. So yeh, I don't see how that's not possible. Useless? He's the best swordsman in the realm, who cut down three Northern nobles, and won two battles against the Riverland forces. He's the best swordsman in the realm and yet he got caught by a newbie in warfare because he was too arrogant, and was bested at the sword by a woman (as great of a swordwoman Brienne might be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Faceless-Woman Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Useless? He's the best swordsman in the realm, who cut down three Northern nobles, and won two battles against the Riverland forces. And the Starks don't know that Jaime can't inherit. Did you forget that Barristan was dismissed from the KG? Who's to say the same couldn't happen for Jaime? The only hostage the Lannisters could have had that would be as valuable as Jaime would be Ned. Right, the Starks know he's a KG, and KG duty are for life when you've got a tiny bit of honor. Even Tywin says so it was utterly stupid to dismiss Barristan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 It was a risk worth taking considering the situation at the time - Stannis about to attack the capital soon which meant Sansa likely dying and Jaime's value as a hostage declining dramatically once Joff and his siblings were executed by him, which seemed likely at the time. And people keep saying that the mission was totally doomed but forget that Jaime and Brienne made it to Maidenpool, which is about two thirds of the way from Riverrun to KL. Would I be pissed if I were in Rickard's place? Most likely, but grieving parents usually don't act reasonably and rationally. ''A risk worth taking'' Catelyn freed Jaime for no gain. There is absolutely no chance Tywin would return Sansa. Everyone knew that. The mission was doomed because Catelyn would never get to see her daughter again anywaay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I don't think Tyrells would have allied with the Starks. It was against their own ambitions. They have zero benefit in helping out the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 ''A risk worth taking'' Catelyn freed Jaime for no gain. There is absolutely no chance Tywin would return Sansa. Everyone knew that. Who is that everyone? Certainly nobody in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyat>Daenerys Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Who is that everyone? Certainly nobody in the books. Yes everyone in the books. Nobody expected for any of the girls to return. Even Catelyn was always skeptical about it. And are you denying that Tywin would never let Sansa go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Did Sweetrobin die in ACOK in your version of the books or something? :cool4: No but you know what i meant if lysa ain't joining when her home and brother is under siege she ain't joining for a marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 He's the best swordsman in the realm and yet he got caught by a newbie in warfare because he was too arrogant, and was bested at the sword by a woman (as great of a swordwoman Brienne might be). Jaime wasn't bested by Brienne. Take a look at the chapter again. Jaime, who has been malnourished for the better part of a year living in a dungeon, with his hand tied, was just about to turn the tides on Brienne. Brienne admitted as much. Jaime with both hands free and with proper sustenance would make Brienne into mincemeat. Right, the Starks know he's a KG, and KG duty are for life when you've got a tiny bit of honor. Even Tywin says so it was utterly stupid to dismiss Barristan. And why should they assume Jaime has honor? Jaime is viewed by the majority of Westeros to be one of the least honorable people alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yes everyone in the books. Nobody expected for any of the girls to return. Even Catelyn was always skeptical about it. And are you denying that Tywin would never let Sansa go? I am saying we don't know. But Tyrion made an official public offer as the Hand representative from the throne for hostage exchange. That's serious stuff in Westeros which can't be just ignored. And hostage exchanges of lesser ranked nobles were happening regularly during the war. Tywin may be a scumbag, but publicly he tries to be seen as honourable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The Tyrells have 3 sons, and none were engaged to any of the Lannisters if I recall correctly. Besides, they could have made common cause had Renly not died in this tent by a stupid babyshadow. Even with Renly death actually, a deal could have been made with the Tyrells. So yeh, I don't see how that's not possible. He's the best swordsman in the realm and yet he got caught by a newbie in warfare because he was too arrogant, and was bested at the sword by a woman (as great of a swordwoman Brienne might be). The Tyrells want everything not a third of it so there was no chance of an alliance beyond wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Faceless-Woman Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Jaime wasn't bested by Brienne. Take a look at the chapter again. Jaime, who has been malnourished for the better part of a year living in a dungeon, with his hand tied, was just about to turn the tides on Brienne. Brienne admitted as much. Jaime with both hands free and with proper sustenance would make Brienne into mincemeat. And why should they assume Jaime has honor? Jaime is viewed by the majority of Westeros to be one of the least honorable people alive. Ok for the Brienne part. But it doesn't take out the fact that he was bested by a newbie at warfare. And Jaime doesn't make the decision to leave the KG. It's a life duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Ok for the Brienne part. But it doesn't take out the fact that he was bested by a newbie at warfare. And Jaime doesn't make the decision to leave the KG. It's a life duty. Tell that to barristan blount and the Hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Faceless-Woman Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The Tyrells want everything not a third of it so there was no chance of an alliance beyond wishful thinking. Might be. But they have THREE SONS and ONE DAUGHTER, I'm sure they can marry few of them, make the Lannister bite the dust, and have one of their offspring in a good position? Since Joffrey and cie are not even rightful heirs, I'm sure something could have been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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