Walder Frey wasn't obligated to help Robb.

[kimim]

1. Yes Frey had the right to punish Robb.

2. He had the means to punish Robb: Don't let him pass. Watch while Tywin destroys him and his troops. Send some of your own men down to help Tywin.

3. Lying to Robb that you forgive him, allowing him to enter the Twins, stage a wedding, and murder everyone in cold blood while under your roof and helpless is not honorable, from ANY point of view, not our pov, or a medieval pov, or a Westerosi pov. Surely this is obvious.

 

4. If there's textual proof that Tywin did more than tempt Frey to pull a RW, that Tywin threatened the Freys with a Rains of Castamere situation if Frey didn't kill Robb, then that's something else. Such a threat is in Tywin's character.

 

5. However, we know that acting in extreme ways in response to an insult is also in Frey's character. He allies with a 15-year-old against Tywin in the first place, in response to such a slight. Coming from the otherwise "late" lord Frey, that alliance is as extreme as a RW. Also, Frey does not act like a man acting under duress in the RW. Maybe he's a good actor. Maybe we'll learn more in Winter.

 

Anyhow, on tenth thought, imo the question should remain open, as we simply don't know why Frey did what he did. If it was simply in response to a slight, then, no, there's zero justification, and he had no right to take that particular revenge. If he responded to a direct threat against his entire family, then things are more complicated.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

Legally fuzzy. Literary said so. Also I do not think there are such hard and fast rules about this. The amount of evidence and the nature of the crime matter. Would she still not have had the authority to arrest him if she had (in this hypothetical situation) personally, with multiple witnesses, seen him trying to kill Bran.

 

I'm going with arrest. 

 

The King disagrees with you.

 

"Abductions on the kingsroad and drunken slaughter in my streets," the king said. "I will not have it, Ned."

 

The King is pretty much the law, so it is not really legally fuzzy at all.

[The Wolves]

I agree that Walder didin't had to save Robb. If he hadn't open his gated Robb would had either went back to the North or would had died once Tywin would had arrived at the Twins. Walder only had to follow the King and Joff was the King, he didn't had to became a traitor because Edmure was one.

Walder didn't have to align himself with the Starks or Tullys he should have kept his greedy, disgusting, worthless ass out of it let Robb sink or swim without his help.

Walder talked about vows and spewed other bullshit about kings and shit but he was every bit a traitor when he threw those vow he swore to the king away to marry into an ancient great house for power. A snake punk bitch throughout his whole life.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Walder didn't have to align himself with the Starks or Tullys he should have kept his greedy, disgusting, worthless ass out of it let Robb sink or swim without his help.

Walder talked about vows and spewed other bullshit about kings and shit but he was every bit a traitor when he threw those vow he swore to the king away to marry into an ancient great house for power. A snake punk bitch throughout his whole life.

If Robb wasn't ready to play with the big boys he should had stay to WF playing with his toys and not goint to a war.

[The Wolves]

If Robb wasn't ready to play with the big boys he should had stay to WF playing with his toys and not goint to a war.

Robb was ready he actually went toe to toe with them but I'm not talking about Robb I'm talking about Walder.

Walder should have never got involved with the Stark/Tully war he talked about vows to the king and house Tully therefore he should have stayed out of it instead of trying to be greedy.

[Snowhere fast]

Walder wasn't obligated to help Robb? Robb was on his way to save Walder's liege lord, who he should have had as much, if not more, loyalty to than the iron throne. Walder owed it to the Tulley's for being a vassel. The weasel got two marriage promises out of something which he shouldn't have, if he was a loyal vassel he wouldn't have demanded the things he did. Also, the Lannisters were destroying the river lands, his own land. Surely that would be another reason to aid Robb.

[marsyao]

 

3. Lying to Robb that you forgive him, allowing him to enter the Twins, stage a wedding, and murder everyone in cold blood while under your roof and helpless is not honorable, from ANY point of view, not our pov, or a medieval pov, or a Westerosi pov. Surely this is obvious.

 

 

As I said many times before, the reason why stage a red wedding is that this is the only way Walder Frey could have a chance to kill Robb, under any other circunstance, Robb would be heavily guarded and no Frey would be allowed anywhere near him. Besides most of high Lords who attended the Red Wedding were taken alive as hostage, not killed

 

4. If there's textual proof that Tywin did more than tempt Frey to pull a RW, that Tywin threatened the Freys with a Rains of Castamere situation if Frey didn't kill Robb, then that's something else. Such a threat is in Tywin's character.
 

 

Without doubt, Tywin gave the order to Walder Frey to kill Robb as a price he need to pay in order to be accepted back to King's grace and receiving a big reward. but I do not believe Tywin order Freys to stage a red wedding to acheive this goal, that part belonged to Walder Frey alone

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Robb was ready he actually went toe to toe with them but I'm not talking about Robb I'm talking about Walder.

Walder should have never got involved with the Stark/Tully war he talked about vows to the king and house Tully therefore he should have stayed out of it instead of trying to be greedy.

Actually he wasn't ready. Playing at war is understanding except from raw power how the alliances work and he obviously didn't had a clue how to do that.

[The Wolves]

Actually he wasn't ready. Playing at war is understanding except from raw power how the alliances work and he obviously didn't had a clue how to do that.

Okay and he died that's not the point again I'm talking about Frey spewing bullshit about vows and how he should have stayed out of it since his vows were to both the throne and Tullys.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Okay and he died that's not the point again I'm talking about Frey spewing bullshit about vows and how he should have stayed out of it since his vows were to both the throne and Tullys.

Again. He had no idea how the real world is, Walder on the other hand knew. After all it wasn't Walder who asked for Robb's help but the other way around. He wanted help and after it was given to him he broke his vows making himself the enemy.

[The Wolves]

Again. He had no idea how the real world is, Walder on the other hand knew. After all it wasn't Walder who asked for Robb's help but the other way around. He wanted help and after it was given to him he broke his vows making himself the enemy.

I'm talking about Walder and his vows stop bringing up Robb and the real world no one but you is harping on that.

And all Robb wanted to do was cross the bridge I'm sure he could have payed his way yet Walder got greedy. Either Walder should have let Robb and his army pay and cross or said no and closed the bridge there wouldn't have been breaking any vows thats all he had to do.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I'm talking about Walder and his vows stop bringing up Robb and the real world no one but you is harping on that.

And all Robb wanted to do was cross the bridge I'm sure he could have payed his way yet Walder got greedy. Either Walder should have let Robb and his army pay and cross or said no and closed the bridge there wouldn't have been breaking any vows thats all he had to do.

What you don't understand is what Walder did is the way a war is played. Since Robb wanted to play at war he had to agree with what was expected from him. You can scream all you want about how hypocritical Walder was but this is how the game is played.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

I'm talking about Walder and his vows stop bringing up Robb and the real world no one but you is harping on that.

And all Robb wanted to do was cross the bridge I'm sure he could have payed his way yet Walder got greedy. Either Walder should have let Robb and his army pay and cross or said no and closed the bridge there wouldn't have been breaking any vows thats all he had to do.

 

He did make Walder pay. The cost was a marriage alliance. It is not greedy, it was perfectly in keeping with Westerosi politics. Both Robbs grandfather and his ancestor, Cregan Stark, had needed a marriage alliance to support a side in war.

[The Wolves]

 
He did make Walder pay. The cost was a marriage alliance. It is not greedy, it was perfectly in keeping with Westerosi politics. Both Robbs grandfather and his ancestor, Cregan Stark, had needed a marriage alliance to support a side in war.

What did Ned have to pay to cross his army across the bridge to fight in RR?

Robb and his army was probably capable of paying to cross the bridge yes money Walder did not have to align himself with the Starks what he did broke his vows yet the bitch was whinning about his vows earlier to Cat. He should have stayed out of it.

And yes Robb should have kept his word and he payed to high for breaking it but Frey and his should have stayed out of it.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

What did Ned have to pay to cross his army across the bridge to fight in RR?

 

Did Ned need to cross the Twins in RR?

[The Wolves]

Did Ned need to cross the Twins in RR?

Yeah he didn't have the fleet and Gultown was rebelling so I'm thinking that's the only way he and his army crossed to fight on the Trident.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Yeah he didn't have the fleet and Gultown was rebelling so I'm thinking that's the only way he and his army crossed to fight on the Trident.

 

You don't need the Twins to reach the Trident. The Kings Road goes straight to it.

 

Robb needed the Twins because Tywin was waiting at the Green Fork(where the battle of the Trident took place) and needed another way to get to Riverrun.

 

I'm not saying that Ned didnt use the Twins during Roberts Rebellion, I'm just saying that from the battles and participators we have been told about there was no reason for Ned to have to use it.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

<snip

Anyhow, on tenth thought, imo the question should remain open, as we simply don't know why Frey did what he did. If it was simply in response to a slight, then, no, there's zero justification, and he had no right to take that particular revenge. If he responded to a direct threat against his entire family, then things are more complicated.

Per the author...August 23, 2000, filed under "Correspondence with fans."

 

 The Red Wedding was motivated by his desire to wash out the dishonor that was done him.

 

So it was all about Robb marrying Jeyne.

[Winterstorm]

Robb wanted to help Walder's liege , of course Walder had to let him pass. His excuse " i made an oath to the crown" holds no water since he didn't honor his oath to Aerys/the crown 15 years ago. Walder doesn't care about the oaths he made. Only about getting power and influence.

 

So GRRM the  said the RW was about Jeyne but i'm not sold yet ,tbh.

So in canon : Robb marries Jeyne, Robb loses the war = dead Robb

Robb marries Roslin/Fair Walda/ whoever, Robb wins the war = Robb alive

Robb marries Roslin/Fair Walda/whoever, Robb loses the war = dead Robb? Walder is treacherous, so i'm sure he betrays Robb

Robb marries Jeyne, Robb wins the war = dead Robb? If it was all about Jeyne, Walder is still pissed at him in this scenario

 

And i don't understand why the Freys needed the RW. Bracken, Vance, Piper, Swann, Connigton etc all bend the knee, had to give away land and hostages and thats it. Walder is rich and has enough relatives anyway, so that's not a problem. And better  than breaking a sacred tradition and making the whole continent hate you. Freys drop like flies after the RW. No one will trust them for the next years, if they survive. Why doesn't he close the Twins, declares for Joffrey and watches how Tarly and the Mountain butcher Robb beneath his castle walls. Even i as Stark-fan would understand this decision and since i disliked him from the start , it wouldn't really made a difference for me.

[Prince Lou of House Reed]

I'm a huge fan of Walder despite my inner desire to see eveything he holds dear to be destroyed. Usually this isn't the case for most of the villains we've met so he'll probsbly die of a broken hip or something ridiculous so have no fear fellow fans! However the Young Wolf will forever be my King and I'll never understand why people constantly defend such heinous deeds. Robb was King and still humbled himself, married a Frey to the Tullys and even did it all in person allowing himself to be murdered. What more can a man do if there is any guy on this site who says he's never made a bad decision over a girl I will call that man a liar or virgin.