redeagl Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I think that the Great Other exists and is in the deepest of the lands of always winter. The heart of winter.(GRRM said that we will visit the lands of always winter.Mel saw the Great Other in her visions.) and R'hllor exists too and is in the deepest of Asshai. ( Thats why many red priests visit Asshai not to see R'hllor of course but to learn about thier god Asshai is the center of this relligion and BTW the Azor Ahai scrolls is located there.) So what do you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 GRRM has repeatedly said that the gods won't appear in the story.For example, he took part in a panel at Worldcon in 2004 about gods as characters. He scoffed at the very idea, and said (as this SSM paraphrases it) in the real world he doesn't see gods, but he does see religions...and he creates religions, not gods.At InConjunction in 2007, he said (as this SSM paraphrases it) that there will be no gods on stage in the books and the reader will have to decide whether there are gods or not.And so on.So, I don't think it's likely that the Great Other is in the Heart of Winter, and R'hllor in deepest Asshai, especially not if we're going to visit either of those places, because that would be gods "on stage" and "as characters". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeagl Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 GRRM has repeatedly said that the gods won't appear in the story. For example, he took part in a panel at Worldcon in 2004 about gods as characters. He scoffed at the very idea, and said (as this SSM paraphrases it) in the real world he doesn't see gods, but he does see religions...and he creates religions, not gods. At InConjunction in 2007, he said (as this SSM paraphrases it) that there will be no gods on stage in the books and the reader will have to decide whether there are gods or not. And so on. So, I don't think it's likely that the Great Other is in the Heart of Winter, and R'hllor in deepest Asshai, especially not if we're going to visit either of those places, because that would be gods "on stage" and "as characters". I would bellive it if there wasn't magic. Where is magic coming from then ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Power resides were men believe it resides. Could be there are no gods and people just believe that they do and that grants the followers a modicum of power. Who knows? Well besides Martin of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 It's a fantasy world. You don't need a god for there to be magic. In fact, having a god or some other being dispensing magic makes the whole thing less mysterious and interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I think that the Great Other exists and is in the deepest of the lands of always winter. The heart of winter.(GRRM said that we will visit the lands of always winter.Mel saw the Great Other in her visions.) and R'hllor exists too and is in the deepest of Asshai. ( Thats why many red priests visit Asshai not to see R'hllor of course but to learn about thier god Asshai is the center of this relligion and BTW the Azor Ahai scrolls is located there.) So what do you think ? I think that R'hllor and the Great Other are misinterpretations made by the red priests based on places of real magic power. There is power in Asshai and Stygai, but this does not mean that R'hllor is a real god. The weirwoods and greenseers are powerful, but they are not gods. The Old Gods religion was created by First-Men misunderstanding the nature of these entities The Heart of Winter may be a real location with dreamers (greenseers?) impaled into ice spires, but the Great Other is an invention of the red priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 999th Sword of Braavos Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 on a side note, if we do go to the land of always winter, what do you think will be the context and who do you think will be the POV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 on a side note, if we do go to the land of always winter, what do you think will be the context and who do you think will be the POV? Jon Snow to treat with the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 GRRM has repeatedly said that the gods won't appear in the story.For example, he took part in a panel at Worldcon in 2004 about gods as characters. He scoffed at the very idea, and said (as this SSM paraphrases it) in the real world he doesn't see gods, but he does see religions...and he creates religions, not gods.At InConjunction in 2007, he said (as this SSM paraphrases it) that there will be no gods on stage in the books and the reader will have to decide whether there are gods or not.And so on.So, I don't think it's likely that the Great Other is in the Heart of Winter, and R'hllor in deepest Asshai, especially not if we're going to visit either of those places, because that would be gods "on stage" and "as characters". And then the readers met the Old Gods in person in ADWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 And then the readers met the Old Gods in person in ADWD. But they are not gods. The weirwoods + CoTF + greenseers are physical beings with access to a lot of magic. The First Men made up a religion around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 on a side note, if we do go to the land of always winter, what do you think will be the context and who do you think will be the POV? I vote for Jon Snow inside Ghost following his desire to look for Benjen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeagl Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Guys if we trusted everything GRRM said then ADWD would have released back in 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 It's a fantasy world. You don't need a god for there to be magic. In fact, having a god or some other being dispensing magic makes the whole thing less mysterious and interesting.Exactly.GRRM has explained this himself. People in our world invent gods to explain what they can't understand; magic just means there's even more that they can't understand, so they're even more prone to invent gods as an explanation.But you don't need to trust GRRM. There are hundreds of fantasy stories, going back to Vance, Leiber, and Campbell, that have magic that has nothing to do with gods. Even in fantasy worlds that do have gods and divine powers, there's usually separate "wizardly" magic that's entirely separate from divine magic (which is why D&D has the magic-user class as well as the cleric, and every fantasy RPG since has followed suit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenezuelanLord Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Just as our ancestors the people in Westeros attribute things that they cannot explain to a "God", for example, fire magic is often attributed to Rholl, The shamanistic kind of magic the north possess its attributed to the old gods.. This 'gods' influence have been increasing since the Dragon's birth.. And I mean the direct kind of influence ( think beric rebirth, and Bran's powers ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonsmurf Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What do you people think the Heart of Winter is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah.jenice Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 GRRM has repeatedly said that the gods won't appear in the story.For example, he took part in a panel at Worldcon in 2004 about gods as characters. He scoffed at the very idea, and said (as this SSM paraphrases it) in the real world he doesn't see gods, but he does see religions...and he creates religions, not gods.At InConjunction in 2007, he said (as this SSM paraphrases it) that there will be no gods on stage in the books and the reader will have to decide whether there are gods or not.And so on.So, I don't think it's likely that the Great Other is in the Heart of Winter, and R'hllor in deepest Asshai, especially not if we're going to visit either of those places, because that would be gods "on stage" and "as characters". This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton Casados-Medve Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What do you people think the Heart of Winter is? I'm especially interested in this question since an old summary of the third novel in the trilogy said that a journey into both the Heart of Winter and the Heart of Fire would restore balance to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 What do you people think the Heart of Winter is?Well, the only piece of real information we have is Bran's early vision: something beyond a curtain of light that made him cry to see it, guarded by spires of ice with thousands of previous dreamers impaled on them, which he barely escapes.The curtain of light could be some kind of magical ward, or it could be something more prosaic (like the aurora borealis that's usually visible 2000-2500km from the magnetic pole in our world) that just means Bran was going pretty far north. But the ice spires pretty clearly imply that there are magical wards that protect the Heart of Winter against not just physical intruders but also greenseers, whether the curtain is part of those wards or not.Anyway, I'd guess that the Heart is the Others' home base during the war, whether or not it's their homeland. And that there are some kind of Other magicians there doing some kind of Other magic (whether that's creating the long winters, or just breeding ice spiders or something). And that either someone will have to meet with the Others there to end the war peacefully, or someone will have to infiltrate it and stop their magic to end it violently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonsmurf Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I believe the Heart of Winter is placed on the North Pole, but other than that I just don't know... To me the curtain of light sounds lie when there is a lot of snow during the arctic summer and the sun shines. Everything is white and everything shines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 on a side note, if we do go to the land of always winter, what do you think will be the context and who do you think will be the POV? Jon or BenJen's POV. I think the Heart of Winter is where the Others come from. It frightened Bran so much when he saw it in his dream that it surely cannot be a good place. I wonder if Ice is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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