Mandon Moore was whose catspaw?

[The Sword of Early Afternoon]

Do we know, or think we know, who had Mandon Moore try to kill Tyrion on the Blackwater? (Does this, like everything else, trace back to LF?) And what was the motivation exactly?

Whoever it was, I assume they didn't bother to finish the job after the battle b/c Tyrion had lost so much power by then that the would-be killer's purpose had been served. Correct?

Thanks for any light you can shed.

-TSOEA

[Frozen Fire]

He was alledgedly Cercei's, as far as I can remember. Textual evidence for or against will likely show up from another boarder shortly.

[Patrick Mallister]

i pretty much see two suspects: 1. LF and 2. Cersie

i think it was definately LF, since he's demonstrated that he can influence the royals to do pretty much anythign while beign half way around the world (i know thats an exaggeration, but not by much), which makes me think he could have had Joff give ser mandon an order/ imply he'd be happy if the imp died in battle. If you look at the encounters between LF and Tyrion while Tyrion is Hand, i think its entirely feasible that LF was behind it via Cersie....which makes me htink it wasnt him at all since i am not too good at picking up his schemes until im pointed in the right direction. While we've seen LF's cunning, Cersie is fully capable of having her brother assassinated (or at least trying to) without anyone's help

[Kingslayer]

We don't know, but I would assume Littlefinger is behind it. He would have known Moore, as they both originated in the Vale and served under Jon Arryn, and he had ample motivation- Tyrion was a dangerous rival, and his little ploy with the marriage offers seemed to get under sweet Petyr's skin.

[The Sword of Early Afternoon]

Thanks, everyone. So this is still an open question. I'm doing a re-re-re-read, and I'm glad to know I wasn't just missing something obvious.

Tyrion certainly believes it was Cercei. But I'll put myself, with most of y'all, in the LF camp -- possibly acting through Cercei and/or Joffrey.

Thanks again!

-TSOEA

[Trebla]

I myself have always thought he belonged to LF. Throughout Cersei's POV, she really never thinks of Mandon Moore while she obsesses over Tyrion.

[Ser Tollah The Honest]

I don't think it was Cersei because she never thought about it. Similarly I don't think it was Littlefinger as he would have boasted about the scheme to Sansa. I'm gonna go with Joffrey - it was a retarded command to give, and Tyrion spoiled Joff's fun and embarassed the little shit a few times as hand. Also it fits in with his whole "send a dog to kill a dog" philosophy.

[The Pita]

I think it was LF.

Remember, he has influence in the Vale, and that's where Mandon came from.

[Demonic Weasel]

To start with- not everything can be traced back to Petyr.

Secondly, there are other options than dear, dear Littlefinger. Essentially, the argument that most people use to suggest Littlefinger's duplicity is that both Moore and Petyr came from the Vale. So what? Mia Stone comes from the Vale too and she's not being influenced by Littlefinger to have one of her mules toss the little Lord Robert off a cliff now. And even if Littlefinger was to go to the trouble of destroying Tyrion, why bother setting up anything at all? Tyrion was damming himself pretty thoroughly with his temper.

That said, who else might have benefitted from this? Obviously Tywin Lannister wouldn't have objected if his monstrous son died bravely in battle, Tyrion would die in such a way that Lannister honor is still respected and he would have been rid of his hateful embarrasment. Unfortunately, Lord Tywin wouldn't have any especial influence over Moore unless you want to take our friend, Nightflyer's, interpertation that Petyr Baelish is behind most things and that Tywin Lannister is his sponsor. Some pieces of that theory fit well enough, but I wouldn't say that this does.

So, following from that, who else would do it? It's been suggested that Moore may have acted on his own in some obscure form of vengeance against Tyrion, but the question is; why? The only thing people have suggested is because Tyrion tells Moore that he killed Ser Vargis. Really, that's at all a motive, especially as we have evidence that Moore wasn't on close terms with anybody and that Moore seemed to have no especial respect for anybody.

This leaves Cersei and Joff. Cersei would be convincing but for two things; the first one being that in all of AFfC, she never once thinks of the plot, and secondly that if it is Cersei then Tyrion already solved the mystery. Possible, but that doesn't fit with George's style. Wash her out.

Joff is by far the most likely suspect. He hates his uncle for standing up to him, he uses his Kingsguard to beat girls. Why wouldn't he order one to kill his uncle? Some few argue against this pointing out that Tyrion was letting Joff play with the Antler Men. So what? Joff holds grudges regardless of whatever small victories he wins. Sansa Stark, for example. Furthermore, it's the kind of order that he'd give, and he's the only one who would not think to assume that killing the man in charge might damage morale.

[Ealasaid]

This is an excellent question. If Cersie or LF were the culprits, I agree that they would have killed Tyrion as he lay wounded. Joffrey is a good candidate because he didn't have the savvy or contacts to kill his uncle while he was recuperating. He certainly hated Tyrion enough. The scene is a lot like Bran's - except Tyrion might have had a guard or Pod around much of the time, leaving Joff no way to finish him off. But I can't find anything to support this.

[Patrick Mallister]

yeah, despite my thought that it was LF, i did say that made me suspect that it wasnt him because he usually covers his tracks, and finishes the job....the animosity between him and tyrion was too open and overt for it to be him...while i think LF respects Tyrion's talents and respects him as an opponent in teh game of thrones, i dont think he fears him because he can manipulate him into burying himself via his temper and cercie/joff's idiocy...as other's have said, if it were cercie she would have thought about it, and i think LF would have used one of his Kettleblacks if he were to do it, no even suspects that they are his...which leaves Joff...who still could be working with LF whispering in his ear, but i dont htink so

[Atreides]

Yeah if it's poorly done, it's probably Joff or Cersei, not Littlefinger. If it's stupid and poorly done before Joff and Tywin died, than it's definitely Joff.

[ccoa]

It wasn't all that stupid, though. Moore waited for a chance when Tyrion was alone, and if it weren't for Tyrion's reflexes and Pod, he'd have been dead. Not only dead, but dead in such a way that no one would think to investigate the cause. People die in battles in hordes, why would anyone question one more? And who would ever think that Tyrion the Imp would stand a chance against a knight of the Kingsguard?

As to why they didn't try again, it would depend on if they had the opportunity again and what their goals were in the first place. If their goal was simply to stop him from carrying out his actions as Hand, they succeeded.

[Tree of Ni]

More info can be found on:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showt...hl=mandon+moore

Cheers!

[L'Sana]

I would say that Cersei is almost certainly off the hook. First, there is the fact that Tyrion investigated her and couldn't find a connection to Moore. Second, she never thinks of it in her PoV.

Joff is a possibility, of course, as someone whose orders the Kingsguard would obey. If so, we'll never know about it. If it was Joff, however, it is interesting that he never made a follow up attempt on Tyrion, though it's possible that he just lost interest.

My personal money, however, is on Littlefinger. No, he isn't behind everything, but I think he's behind this. The fact that he and Moore are both from the Vale is a tenuous connection, but it is still a connection. We also have an example of LF manipulating the Kingsguard to get his own man in there with the Kettleblacks. Perhaps he could have done the same thing with Moore.

My answer to the objections:

1. Why didn't he try again? Well, because he didn't have the opportunity. Cersei could have visited Tyrion as a concerned sister. Joff could have been both a devoted nephew, and the king desperately worried about his loyal councilor. LF was neither friend nor family, so couldn't have come himself, and doesn't seem to have that much influence over the Maesters, so it would have been hard to move that way. He just had to wait for another opportunity to strike at Tyrion (which if you don't go for an unknown conspiracy theory about the Purple Wedding, LF found and took).

2. Why didn't he boast to Sansa about it? Well, why would he? He hasn't told her all of his schemes, particularly those he believes she will disapprove of (note his failure to boast about betraying Ned). No real reason to tell her about this one.

[Lord Varys]

Actually, Littlefinger visited Tyrion in his sick-bed. Along with Varys, Cersei and Tywin, if I remember correctly. Furthermore, we know that Petyr has no interest at all to boast the amount of his cleverness completely in front of Sansa. He didn't want Lysa telling Sansa about the murder of Jon Arryn.

But if we imagine Petyr as man behind Moore, then there's no reason why he should kill Tyrion now. There's a new plan for the Imp. He's going to be the scapegoat for the poisoning of Joffrey.

On the other hand I realize it would be rather difficult for Petyr to choose Tyrion as scapegoat, if he left KL with special orders for Ser Mandon. Even if he made it vague: 'Kill him, if there's an opportunity to do so', there could have been actually an opportunity. But we knew, that the whole Baelish-Tyrell-poisoning-plot was already made, when Littlefinger came back to KL in the end of ACoK. Therefore there's a certain possibility that he was not behind Ser Mandon. Although I'm quite convinced that Moore was Petyr's man.

[Ealasaid]

More info can be found on:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showt...hl=mandon+moore

Cheers!

We've already hashed this point? We need a new book.......

[Patrick Mallister]

just to throw a new name in the mix, does anyone think it could have been varys?....i havent read any ADWD spoilers save those put up by GRRM on his site and i forget everything that was in the Tyrion one, however i have heard speculation that the two are in cahoots now....as they were when Tyrion was Hand, ie Shae. But then Varys was in cahoots with Ned too and he ended up dead. so i guess im asking if Varys may have played a part in it even if he didnt give Mandon the order directly

[IthilanorStPete]

It's fairly clear that Varys wants Tyrion alive to serve his purpose-helping Dany. So no.

[Kingslayer]

There's a new plan for the Imp. He's going to be the scapegoat for the poisoning of Joffrey.

Exactly. He did try to kill him again when he set him up for Joffrey's murder...