The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
A Song of Ice and Fire Calendar 2013
A Song of Ice and Fire Calendar 2013
Amazon.com
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Syrio Forel = Jaqen H'ghar?


  • Please log in to reply
194 replies to this topic

#21 Dragonfish

Dragonfish

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,573 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 02:58 PM

You kid, it's obviously like speaking with a braavosi accent: if you do, you are Jaqen, as only one person is allowed a specific trait in the whole word.


But...Jaqen speaks with a Lorathi accent (Well, presumably he does).

#22 Raiki

Raiki

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 80 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:01 PM

I don't think that you have to be rich to hire a faceless man. If I recall, the cost is proportionate to the wealth of the one paying.


Actually, it's decided to the importance/wealth of the person being targetted.

/nitpick



Edit: Also, I will confess a certain fondness for the S=JH theory. I've even argued that Syrio *could* in fact have killed Trant with the available weapons and armour situation (assuming of course that we ignore the obvious fact that Trant is still alive).

I've never actually been able to make myself believe it, though. I'm a skeptic at heart, and a small unarmed man with no armour versus a large man in full plate with a 2 handed sword...it just seems like too much of a foregone conclusion to me.
~R~

Edited by Raiki, 23 May 2011 - 03:04 PM.


#23 seppuku

seppuku

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 190 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:02 PM

Ok, that's a good point, I didn't think about Yoren's ability to pick out Arya.

That said, have you ever heard of change blindness? It is, according to my limited understanding of it, the inability to notice changes to things we are not paying attention to. Another way of putting it is that when the human brain isn't specifically paying attention to something, it often fills in the gap in its memory of it with what it thinks it ought to have seen. There've been experiments run where people speak directly to one person behind a desk, who then ducks under the desk to "get something", only for a completely different person wearing different clothes to come up from behind the desk. And somewhere around 70% of people fail to notice that it's a completely different person!

Of course, it's doubtful GRRM knows about this psychological phenomenon, and even if he did his story still needs to be plausible to those readers who don't know about it, which is likely most of them.

The only other fanwanking I could come up with would be that the lighting conditions were low in the cage, or that Yoren wasn't actually there when the cage was loaded onto his cart. But that's all baseless, and perhaps implausible, speculation.

Now, I may just have to go back to not believing in the theory...


Yoren is also a drunk.

But Syrio could have easily changed in the dungeons or something. It was a chaotic time to be sure.

Edited by seppuku, 23 May 2011 - 03:02 PM.


#24 shinytoyrobots

shinytoyrobots

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 143 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:10 PM

When does Syrio get captured in order to be in the dungeons in the first place? Even assuming that he doesn't get killed by Trant, the only alternative seems to be that he just runs away and escapes completely.

#25 Raiki

Raiki

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 80 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:26 PM

When does Syrio get captured in order to be in the dungeons in the first place? Even assuming that he doesn't get killed by Trant, the only alternative seems to be that he just runs away and escapes completely.


He...gets captured..by Trant...? /improper use of elipses

How is this even a question?

Edited by Raiki, 23 May 2011 - 03:28 PM.


#26 shinytoyrobots

shinytoyrobots

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 143 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:28 PM

It's a question because there's no suggestion at all that Trant has *any* interest in capturing him. Therefore if he was in a position where Syrio is incapacitated, he'd just kill him.

#27 seppuku

seppuku

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 190 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:32 PM

When does Syrio get captured in order to be in the dungeons in the first place? Even assuming that he doesn't get killed by Trant, the only alternative seems to be that he just runs away and escapes completely.


Why do the Faceless Man do anything?

To your last point, there huge tunnels under King's Landing, it was written as pretty vast with secret pathways everywhere. It's not like they had cameras in every hall way or something. He could have assumed the identity (since this theory implies he's Jaq) in a number ways/places. It's not like the jailers would be actively watching for people SNEAKING INTO the dungeons. And assuming he was a faceless man, we don't what connections or knowledge of castle he has either. Or even what he does in his spare time when not training Arya.

Edited by seppuku, 23 May 2011 - 03:33 PM.


#28 Dragonfish

Dragonfish

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,573 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:37 PM

Tbh, fog of eternity does raise a good point. No other Stark defender gets taken alive, they're all slaughtered; so why would Syrio get taken alive? Also, IIRC, Trant was pretty impatient to capture Arya in the scene, so it doesn't seem right that he would go to the trouble to capture Syrio when he could more easily just kill him.

Then again, during the Red Wedding the Freys merely captured the Greatjon rather than killing him; you'd think that capturing a huge man and putting him in chains would be more difficult than killing him, yet they capture him anyway. Maybe Trant did the same thing?

#29 shinytoyrobots

shinytoyrobots

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 143 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 03:42 PM

Actually, still unlikely but vaguely more plausible (and, to me, interesting) is that Syrio killed Trant and then took his identity. /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#30 Darzin

Darzin

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 514 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 04:42 PM

So, we have two basic premises:

1) GRRM told them that Jaqen is Syrio.
2)They are messing with us.


Or Syrio like most Braavosi just worships the many faced god. If we see someone mention the seven it doesn't mean they are a septon.

#31 JoaKing

JoaKing

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 05:42 PM

Syrio is a Braavosi and all braavosi have a deep respect for the god of death. Also, his speech is about defying him and not worshiping him! Thus said, i believe episode 6 was just a mind fuck towards us readers /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Edited by JoaKing, 23 May 2011 - 05:43 PM.


#32 Greywolf2375

Greywolf2375

    HIGHLY INTELLIGENT LIBRARIAN

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,718 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 05:59 PM

Actually, still unlikely but vaguely more plausible (and, to me, interesting) is that Syrio killed Trant and then took his identity. /smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

This issue with this is how does Syrio/Jaqen/Trant deal with his Kingsguard brothers? As shown by Jaqen/Pate - they do not get the knowledge the person had and can make mistakes.

#33 seppuku

seppuku

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 190 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 06:35 PM

I've never actually been able to make myself believe it, though. I'm a skeptic at heart, and a small unarmed man with no armour versus a large man in full plate with a 2 handed sword...it just seems like too much of a foregone conclusion to me.
~R~


How is this large man in full plate with a 2h sword going to catch this small, deftly quick and experienced man?

#34 Greywolf2375

Greywolf2375

    HIGHLY INTELLIGENT LIBRARIAN

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,718 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 06:44 PM

How is this large man in full plate with a 2h sword going to catch this small, deftly quick and experienced man?

It's not like Trant is incapable; or mute.

#35 Discreet

Discreet

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 06:55 PM

It's not like the Many Faced God or the Faceless Men are a secret or anything. Just because you speak of them doesn't mean you are one of them. Besides it makes no sense for Syrio to hide his identity from Arya as Jaqen to begin with. Why would he do that? None of this theory makes any sense.

Edited by Discreet, 23 May 2011 - 06:55 PM.


#36 Lord O' Bones

Lord O' Bones

    Kicking it otter school again

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,236 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 06:57 PM

You never see Illyrio, Jaqen, Syrio, Jhalabar Xo, or Fat Belwas at the same time, do you? Do you!? So what? Coincidence?

I THINK NOT!

#37 Raiki

Raiki

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 80 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 07:01 PM

How is this large man in full plate with a 2h sword going to catch this small, deftly quick and experienced man?



It's been stated multiple times: "The first sword of Braavos does not run."

It is known.


~R~

#38 seppuku

seppuku

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 190 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 08:01 PM

It's been stated multiple times: "The first sword of Braavos does not run."


Uh huh and that totally means the unarmed first sword of Braavos is going to stand right there and be cleaved death like cattle. Great argument.

1) Slipping down to the dungeon and shifting into Jaq isn't really 'running'.

2) He's no longer the First Sword of Braavos.

Edited by seppuku, 23 May 2011 - 08:02 PM.


#39 Raiki

Raiki

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 80 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 08:16 PM

2) He's no longer the First Sword of Braavos.


Actually, if you follow the Jaqen = Syrion theory, he never was. How's that for debunking my argument?

Also, for the record, I'm just poking fun at myself and this entire "I really really WISH it were true, so it totally is!" fallacy that's floating around these boards.


~R~

#40 mormont

mormont

    Roja la sangre de mi corazón

  • Board Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,811 posts

Posted 24 May 2011 - 03:32 AM

I suggest that people look through the linked threads on the previous page. Might save a bit of repetition. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />