HAL of House 9000 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I think that having Cersei and Jaime being the offspring of Aerys and Joanna (whether rape or consensual) would be a better twist for a couple of reasons. First I'll clarify that I don't think it would make them dragon riders or in a better position, but that it would add depth to the entire Lannister family dynamic. The reason I think this is more likely is Barriston tells us about Aerys lust for Joanna in regards to the Lord's Right. If this were the case (and I don't know the timeline of marriage vs birth of C & J) then it could be assumed that he did in fact evoke the Lord's Right, and that they were the offspring of that act. One of the best ramifications of this theory is that it means Tyrion is Tywin's only true son. It adds even more to the hatred between the two despite their similarities. It also brings Tywin's lore to a more GRRM-esque grayness - a great man who was essentially king twice, but couldn't father a healthy son. If he knows that Aerys produced a beauty like Cersei and a warrior like Jaime while all he ever had was a dwarf. Also the idea that C&J are Targs adds a great aspect to the idea of the flipped coin mad/great. Personally I respect Jaime quite a bit, and think he is a great example of a man (with his own poor decisions in the name of love). Especially after being captured and losing a hand has changed him and made him develop new skills. Cersei is her fathers daughter (Aerys that is). She fears everyone, paranoid, mistrusting and over trusting at the same time, and an all around poor ruler. I just think it adds alot more to all sorts of dynamics if the twins are in fact Targs. Let me know what you think> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Rose Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 One of the rare moments where we see Joanna is when Jaime dreamt of her. In his dream, she mentioned what Tywin dreamed for his children but never mentioned Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan's Raven Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Aerys, if Tyrion's father, decimates his Hand's royal aspirations by taking the heir, Jaime; refusing Cersei; and fathering the younger son. Tywin overreached and was punished; he had to take it or face being laughed at.Isn't Maeles the Monsterous a deformed Targ? (I am guessing at the name. He comes up in a sellsword chapter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambi Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I honestly don't see why everyone is so up in arms about the possibility of Tyrion being a Targ (assuming A+J=T). I think it fits and it's something Martin has been hinting at since aGoT and it doesn't really cheapen Tyrion's character. Tywin still raised Tyrion and raised him as his son, even if Aerys was Tyrion's father, Tyrion killing Tywin is just as bad as it would be if Tywin was his true father. It also might explain some of Tywin's doubts. Tywin probably lived his life unsure as to Tyrion's parentage and to err is human. This may also explain the crackpot theory that Joanna didn't die and became a silent sister.I honestly think it would be cool if Tyrion has Targ blood, and it doesn't make him any less a Lannister. Also everyone here seems up in arms about all the Targs running about. Last I checked we weren't sure that Aegon returned is actually Targaryen. I find it doubtful after the dubious circumstances surrounding his escape and how he was subsequently given to Jon Connington. From the sounds of it, it took several years before "Aegon" was given to Jon to foster. Why? And what's that about Aegon's eyes again?This. So much. I don't see1) what is the problem with Tyrion being a Targ,2) why don't those who are more sceptic with the theory even give it a chance when it is really STRONGLY hinted on multiple levels. I can't accept the argument that now there would be too mouch Targaryen out there. Dany, Aegon, Tyrion, Jon, that makes for (and a nice minus 1 if Faegon is true). It has also been strongly hinted from the start that "the dragon has 3 heads". I don't see why is it even a surprise to so much people. I think everyone overdimensionated the major archs of this story, and expects everywhere a twist on twist. If Martin goes this way, its still gonna be a GREAT-BIG twist. Truth is, this forum is the source of all these overmistification. The amount of various theories, crackpots is amazing but also terrifying. I bet may head on that most people wouldn't even came on realization with the R+L=J theory by themselves here if not for this forum.Of course this story - and particularly Tyrion being a Targ-theory - looks f***g simple and cliche when everything is laid-spread out here clearly and neatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambi Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I think that having Cersei and Jaime being the offspring of Aerys and Joanna (whether rape or consensual) would be a better twist for a couple of reasons. First I'll clarify that I don't think it would make them dragon riders or in a better position, but that it would add depth to the entire Lannister family dynamic.The reason I think this is more likely is Barriston tells us about Aerys lust for Joanna in regards to the Lord's Right. If this were the case (and I don't know the timeline of marriage vs birth of C & J) then it could be assumed that he did in fact evoke the Lord's Right, and that they were the offspring of that act.One of the best ramifications of this theory is that it means Tyrion is Tywin's only true son. It adds even more to the hatred between the two despite their similarities. It also brings Tywin's lore to a more GRRM-esque grayness - a great man who was essentially king twice, but couldn't father a healthy son. If he knows that Aerys produced a beauty like Cersei and a warrior like Jaime while all he ever had was a dwarf.Also the idea that C&J are Targs adds a great aspect to the idea of the flipped coin mad/great. Personally I respect Jaime quite a bit, and think he is a great example of a man (with his own poor decisions in the name of love). Especially after being captured and losing a hand has changed him and made him develop new skills. Cersei is her fathers daughter (Aerys that is). She fears everyone, paranoid, mistrusting and over trusting at the same time, and an all around poor ruler.I just think it adds alot more to all sorts of dynamics if the twins are in fact Targs. Let me know what you think>How do you explain their appearance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 "Death comes out the dragons mouth, but never goes in that way." "You swallowed half of the Rhoyne." Jon Con already has greyscale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azor Azai Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 How do you explain their appearance? Their appearance as Lannisters? Joanna was a Lannister, a cousin of Tywin, they could easily have inherited her traits. The Targ appearance doesn't always dominate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Nah. Tyrion is Tywin and Joanna's son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Havinfun Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I just love the idea of all three of Tywin’s kids being Mad Aerys’ bastards! :laugh: It’s such a fine symmetry to the spectacle of all three of Robert Baratheon’s official kids being bastards as well, and every last one of the six being of Targaryen blood. Targ blood is special, but very dangerous, because it’s magical, and as we know “sorcery is a sword with no hilt.” Just as with the inbred Targs, some of the bastards are horribly vile creatures of terror, a few others are sweet and/or normal, and a very rare, rare few have exceptional gifts of intellect, vision, and maybe even the ability to ride dragons. Too many Targ bastards you say??? There have been Targ bastards littering the Westerosi landscape for the past 300 years, in every generation (though most frequently in Dragonstone, no surprise there!). In The Princess and the Queen we get to see this overly fertile madness in all its grisly horror, as the dragon lords go after one another and actively recruit “dragonseeds”, no matter how high- or low-born they might be, from all over the kingdom to ride dragons into battle for both sides of the dynastic conflict. And why not? This is A Song of Ice and Fire, and what could be more firey than dragonspawn, spreading everywhere, madly, passionately burning everything they touch, including each other? No wonder Westeros needs the Starks! GRRM is a master of “fractal writing”, where traces of myth, allusion, and narrative echoes repeat and reverberate at all levels of the story, woven in rich textures that both hide and display facts and fancies everywhere. He always leaves clues, though each story is not one but many simultaneously, and often more than one of them is true, just not often how one might expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambi Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Their appearance as Lannisters? Joanna was a Lannister, a cousin of Tywin, they could easily have inherited her traits. The Targ appearance doesn't always dominate And you mean Aerys who fathered two perfectly Targaryen-looking child wouldn't pass any visible Targ features to Cersei and Jaime just because their mother is really a Lannister? I think it'd be simply bad writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 One of the rare moments where we see Joanna is when Jaime dreamt of her. In his dream, she mentioned what Tywin dreamed for his children but never mentioned Tyrion. I noticed this too. If the shade that we see is indeed Joanna, she is confirming that Cersei and Jaime are Tywin's children, while Tyrion's omission is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagardal Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Cersei and Jaime being Aerys' kids would certainly be more dramatic and ironic.... but Tyrion has heterochromia, so I'm leaning towards him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBranRickon Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Tyrion has one green and one black eye. Should have been purple and green for this Aerys-Joanna thing to work.Seeing how infallible the genes in Martin's story are in showing themselves, no purple eyes should kill this theory.It has been said many times in the book that purple eyes often look black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdfmanasdf Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Not only that, but being a dwarf/grotesque could justify any divergence his appearance has from the standard Targ look. I for one think it's possible Tyrion is a Targ, but I certainly hope it's not revealed through Bran "Mary Sue" Stark's new powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the West Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Interesting thing is hetereochromia the mismatched eye thing is genetic........ We only see a Targaryan with it. Despite Genna's assertions remember we know Tyrions mother was undoubtedly a Lannister. Two men born of Lannister women would have Lannister traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the West Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Interesting thing is hetereochromia the mismatched eye thing is genetic........ We only see a Targaryan with it. Despite Genna's assertions remember we know Tyrions mother was undoubtedly a Lannister. Two men born of Lannister women would have Lannister traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the West Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 GC has Blackfyre or fat ass Illyrio. Dark Sister ask BloodRaven.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion XX Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Little else does make sense, I imagine. It would be pointless to make Cersei and Jaime secret Targaryens, whereas Tyrion hangs around Meereen and has to tame two dragons in the near future. Also, it would make no sense to introduce Joanna as Aerys's true love, or the woman he desired above all others, if this never ever played out. Dany has an affair with Daario, so Aerys most likely shared his blankets with Joanna Lannister once or twice. And later rather than sooner, as the young Aerys and the young Tywin were actually friends [it was rather interesting that Kevan and Tywin still hoped that Tywin would be recalled to court after Connington's failure, by the way], later on, Aerys did no longer like him that much. And we only know that Tywin was all that devoted to Joanna, not if she was that devoted to him. Especially the older Tywin would not have been what you would call the ideal husband.It might be even somewhat suspicious or interesting that Joanna had no children for years and years after Jaime and Cersei. And in the end, there are Tyrion's dragon dreams, his mismatched eyes resembling those of Shiera Seastar, his platinum blond hair, and Tywin's suspicion that he was not his son.Judging Tywin, he would never have murdered a child of Joanna's, but he might well have suspected something. But he would have told nothing about that, just as he never spoke about the incest...Dany and Daario having sex is some odd evidence of Aerys and Joanna having a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Love this thread! totally agree with OP. It could not be more obvious at this point that Tyrion is Aerys' son and the twins are Tywins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Love this thread! totally agree with OP. It could not be more obvious at this point that Tyrion is Aerys' son and the twins are Tywins. It could not be more obvious that Tyrion is 100% Tywin's son, and anything else is just wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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