*Slinks into hole, "My mistake", he squeaks*
Good, because it was absolutely, positively NOT a blind guess that Tysha knew who he was. /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />
I think that Tyrion's "sharp lesson" had a lot less to do with any practical necessity or any desire to ensure that Tyrion wasn't deceived by a "whore" than it was by Tywin's irrationality.
I agree absolutely that the farce Tywin orchestrated around Tysha-as-Tyrion's-bride was absolutely about Tywin. I think Tywin needed to constantly prove that:
1. Tywin is not weak. Which means constantly pulling incredibly humiliating, domineering shit on the people around him. *Especially* his children, maybe because they remind him of himself while simultaneously seeming vulnerable, maybe simply because he has a great amount of power over them. He needed other people feel small so he could feel big, I think, and there was nobody he could make feel smaller than his kids.
2. Everybody is a whore. Tywin constantly needed to prove to himself that money = power, because then, as long as Tywin has money he has power. And Tywin was constantly obsessed with getting more power because he was terrified of ever being weak.
The reason I think that matters in terms of the topic at hand is, I think he more than half-convinced Tyrion of both those things -- to fear/despise being weak (while simultaneously feeling weak), and to think of everyone as a whore. But I don't think Tyrion is actually anywhere near as cynical as Tywin was (maybe because he actually could count on or feel protected by his father in *certain* ways? I think there's something there, because he was also very tied to his family for a very long time, and is even now fixated on Casterly Rock. Or maybe if he wanted to really buy into Tywin's cynicism, Tyrion shouldn't have read so many of the same kind of beautiful stories Sansa did while he was growing up /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />). I actually think that fundamental lack of cynicism is what trips him up even now, and that's why he gets confused about what to expect from women -- he's either thinking in terms of beautiful storybooks or his father's "they're all whores" idea, which are both really extreme.
(BTW: I think Cercei completely bought Tywin's bullshit, btw, more than either of Tywin's sons. Maybe because she wasn't a big reader? /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />).
I hadn't really considered that Tyrion was afraid that she'd make a terribly humiliating (for him and her) scene and he wanted to check beforehand if she was resigned to it or not.
it would be really awkward and a bit of a disgrace for him to be married to a woman who is separated from him.
To me, it's not just about being humiliated in front of *other* people, it's also about feeling bad *inside.*
In terms of Sansa and Tyrion living apart, for example, I think that as long as she doesn't take a lover and does bear him children, and they visit a few times a year or so, nobody would really think much of it. They have a lot of land to manage, first of all. And Tyrion would likely be away from the countryside often since he'd likely be involved in politics, so it would make sense for Sansa to simply say she's staying apart from him in order to raise their children in the country. I don't think that would look strange to anyone else, really -- in fact, I would think that for these people that would be the rule rather than the exception.
I think Sansa's issues with that arrangement would be:
1. she would still technically be a Lannister, and so would her children -- that's a major hurdle, I think. But one that doesn't really have to do with whether they'd live apart or together, but rather if they should get an annulment or not, generally.
2. She'd want out if she fell in love with someone else. That would be impossible if she were having Tyrion's babies -- no chance of annulment, obviously! But that would be an issue with anyone she married, so again, I don't think that's a hurdle to the apart/together dilemma, and is just about whether they should get an annulment or not.
But I think even though he wouldn't necessarily be *publicly* humiliated by the arrangement, I do think Sansa's "rejection" would privately eat away at Tyrion, and it would ultimately be a bad idea for him to agree to it. I think he would be willing to live as man and wife in name only, at least for a while, just like he was willing to wait to consummate. But I think it's important to him as an individual to feel *wanted,* and feeling as though he's not could definitely becomes a bigger and bigger embarrassment to him personally until it really messes with his head and makes him an even worse person than he already is. Maybe having a mistress who "wants" him would be enough, I don't know...but if I were his friend, I'd be like: don't do it! ticket to insecurity-ville! Lol. Because you know that given enough time and enough rejection, that man is someone who would end up thinking, just like Tywin did, "they're all just whores. best just concentrate on racking up enough money to pay them"...and that is how a monumental asshole is born. /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />
Btw, if there were an "asshole scale" of 1 (total dick!) to 10 (sweetest ever!), I'd put Tyrion at about a 5.5 and Sansa at about 6.5. I don't think Sansa owes it to him to try and make it work or anything, any more than she owes it to anyone else to love them or marry them. To me, it's just a question of: if they do want to stay married, what expectations do they have for the relationship, and what arrangements should they make so they're most likely to meet those expectations?
If I were Sansa, I'd wait until it's clear I have to make a choice between living as Tyrion's wife or getting an annulment, and then I'd get an annulment (Tyrion doesn't ultimately have anything that Sansa's desperate for, because she's not really ambitious anymore when it comes to titles or money or the high life). If I were Tyrion, I'd wait until there's a better marriage offer on the table. Then, if I liked the other girl better than Sansa (for Tyrion, that probably means "if the girl likes Tyrion better than Sansa likes him"), I'd get an annulment and marry the girl. If I liked Sansa better than the other girl, I'd demand that Sansa come live with me as my wife or get an annulment. Wow, I'm wishing that there were a flow-chart formatting option at this point. /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />
Edited by rue721, 04 August 2011 - 09:06 PM.