The Wall, the Watch and a heresy

[FanTasy]

But also, and maybe its convenience and ease of Storytelling, why is there only one line of Starks? We know why Brandon and Benjen had no children, but why didn't they have cousins? Benjen took the Black, and Brandon was killed, but there aren't exactly a wide birth of Starks married to such and such house, like we have with Lannisters. The Karstarks are the only example, but are also old enough of a line that it's not exactly a close lineage anymore.

Was it always that only one Stark is allowed to produce heirs, and basically the women didn't count?

Brr ... this made me think that there may be a Stark relative we've met beyond the Wall ... Craster. C=K, loose the e and r, shuffle and you get ...

And the Night King, who was sacrificing too, was supposedly also a Stark.

When he meets Jon he (Craster) immediately says: "You're a Stark." I have always read this as Craster knowing Benjen, and Jon and Benjen both have the Stark look.

Hmm ... is it possible we are going to learn some not so nice things about the Starks ?

[hotweaselsoup]

Brr ... this made me think that there may be a Stark relative we've met beyond the Wall ... Craster. C=K, loose the e and r, shuffle and you get ...

And the Night King, who was sacrificing too, was supposedly also a Stark.

When he meets Jon he (Craster) immediately says: "You're a Stark." I have always read this as Craster knowing Benjen, and Jon and Benjen both have the Stark look.

Hmm ... is it possible we are going to learn some not so nice things about the Starks ?

I'm ready to see the dark side of the Starks, personally :D

Another interesting Craster/Stark parallel, is that the Night's Watch mutiny at Craster's Keep which led to Lord Commander Mormont's death at the hands of his brothers, was provoked by someone calling Craster a "bloody bastard".

Also, Ygritte says at one point that "Craster's blood is black, and he bears a heavy curse." She has just finished telling Jon a bit of Craster's origins, but it also seems like there is something more to this "heavy curse" than just being some crow's unwanted bastard.

[Armand Gargalen]

Good points about Craster, especially Ygritte´s comments. On the subject of the old gods and the COTF, I have to say that the whole issue reminds me a lot of "A Song for Lya", a short story by GRRM. I don´t want to spoil it much, but the story features an alien species that melt their consciousnesses when they die in a godlike "hive mind", and I think he has used the same device with the COTF. BTW, probably only a coincidence that both "A Song for Lya" and ASOIAF have such a simmilar name... or not?

[kissdbyfire]

Is it possible that the whole thing works differently for the CotF (both greenseers and non-greenseers) than it does to human wargs? When a human dies his final death he may live on in some animal, and little by little, he forgets who he had been. And the CotF, who are all skinchangers, always leave some part of themselfs in a crow or raven (it's mostly crows and/or ravens for them, isn't it?), but upon dying they go into the trees?

I'm sorry guys, I'm struggling to put my thoughts in writing. 12 hours in a plane is too much, I still feel totally off - my mind hasn't switched back on yet...

:dunno:

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Also, the ranger guy stated that ~ "the trees have eyes once more", which means they had been dormant until the rise in the ambient magic level awakened them again. So I'd still lean toward the trees being "CotF Tanks" and not the true core of their power. They extend the reach of their power through the trees, like the military uses tanks. And when the tides of magic ebb low, the tree power goes into hibernation and the gods lose access to their toys. But of course, anything could be true at this point, as we prove daily.

Are weirwood trees the physical embodiment of Earth magic in the same way that dragons are the physical embodiment of Fire magic? Then what about other magics/songs?

Ice magic--- ice spiders

Sea magic--- krakens

Water magic--- the Old Man of the River (giant turtle)

Air magic--- I have no idea

[Eyron]

Many good points from all above,

Is having "black blood" = kinslayer? Does anyone know what "black blood" means? Bloodraven said he himself has black blood. And according to the wildlings the Starks are cursed from kinslaying too, from when the young lord Stark killed his father Bael the Bard, but I can't remember if they are said to have black blood by anyone. Or are the wildlings just referring to the crows, the NW, when they talk of black blood?

Perhaps black blood means cursed in general, from breaking the old laws (kinslaying, guestright or incest IIRC).

I alway thought it was strange that the Starks seems so well known (lookswise) to the free folk, both Craster and Mance knew right away that Jon was a Stark, and Rowan, the spearwife Mance took with him to Winterfell, were very Stark loyal for some reason (saying angrily that Theon he has no right to use Lord Starks words Winter is coming).

So I'd say there is definitely som special relationship between the free folk and the Starks, and something we are not told yet.

Is it possible that the whole thing works differently for the CotF (both greenseers and non-greenseers) than it does to human wargs? When a human dies his final death he may live on in some animal, and little by little, he forgets who he had been. And the CotF, who are all skinchangers, always leave some part of themselfs in a crow or raven (it's mostly crows and/or ravens for them, isn't it?), but upon dying they go into the trees?

There could be a difference, especially in that the CotF maybe do not forget who they were, whereas the human wargs do. But it's hard to know since we have not had anyone warging an animal that has already been warged by another human (that we read about at least) so we don't know how much a human warg really forgets, or if they die "forever" when their second life has ended. And from Bran warging the raven that had a CotF in it we only know there was someone in the raven, not how much of herself that CotF remembered.

This made me think about Lord Mormonts crow, if there is a warg in that crow - why have not Jon sensed that? Bran in Summer immediately sensed Varamyr in One Eye, and Varamyr sensed Bran too... Is Jon not powerful enough perhaps?

[FanTasy]

Is having "black blood" = kinslayer? Does anyone know what "black blood" means? Bloodraven said he himself has black blood. And according to the wildlings the Starks are cursed from kinslaying too, from when the young lord Stark killed his father Bael the Bard, but I can't remember if they are said to have black blood by anyone. Or are the wildlings just referring to the crows, the NW, when they talk of black blood?

Perhaps black blood means cursed in general, from breaking the old laws (kinslaying, guestright or incest IIRC).

Interesting questions!

There is mention of other black blood in the text: the vision of what's behind the helmet of that warrior (possibly Robert Strong). If Strong is assembled from parts of Gregor, which I sincerely hope is not the case by the way, wasn't there talk about blackening of the blood or veins because of the spell in the manticore poison?

And I think there was mention of black blood dripping down Melisandres thigh.

Black blood could be definitely associated with dark magic, I'd say.

Or it is just seen as 'bad blood', tainted. Like the mudblood concept in Harry Potter.

[Eyron]

Oh right, Melisandres and Gregors blood is also black... The plot thickens... :) Looking at their cases it could have something to do with bloodmagic. Bloodraven were said to be a sorcerer so perhaps he dabbled with that a little at some point, as his sister Shiera may have done too.

But if it is just an expression I guess it's a "curse" for breaking the old rules, after all it's Craster and Bloodraven we are talking about... In this case there are a lot of black blood running through veins in westeros at this point, i.e. in Stannis, the Freys, Lannisters, Boltons and Tyrells, maybe Karstarks too. And probably some more I can't remember right now.

I am sure "black blood" has been mentioned more times, but I can't remember when, where and who. Too bad I don't have e-books, that could shed some light on this.

[hotweaselsoup]

Oh right, Melisandres and Gregors blood is also black... The plot thickens... :) Looking at their cases it could have something to do with bloodmagic. Bloodraven were said to be a sorcerer so perhaps he dabbled with that a little at some point, as his sister Shiera may have done too.

But if it is just an expression I guess it's a "curse" for breaking the old rules, after all it's Craster and Bloodraven we are talking about... In this case there are a lot of black blood running through veins in westeros at this point, i.e. in Stannis, the Freys, Lannisters, Boltons and Tyrells, maybe Karstarks too. And probably some more I can't remember right now.

I am sure "black blood" has been mentioned more times, but I can't remember when, where and who. Too bad I don't have e-books, that could shed some light on this.

Luckily, I do have the e-books :)

The references are in chronological order, from Game through Dance:

Yoren says to Eddard Stark: "You might say as Benjen Stark is why we're talking though. His blood ran black. Made him my brother as much as yours." This sounds like "black blood" means basically "a brother of the Night's Watch".

Khal Drogo's festering wound is described: "Black blood ran slow and thick from his open wound." Here, "black blood" seems to represent poisoned blood, which we also see later with Gregor Clegane.

Dywen also calls Craster's blood "black". Sam tells Jon: "...He marries his daughters and obeys no law but those he makes himself. And Dywen told Grenn he's got black blood in his veins. His mother was a wildling woman who lay with a ranger, so he's a bas..." Again, this reference simply seems to equate "black blood" with a connection to the Night's Watch.

After he has killed the miller's boys, Theon has a nightmare about being chased through the woods by "...great wolves the size of horses with the heads of small children. Oh, mercy, mercy. Blood dripped from their mouths black as pitch, burning holes in the snow where it fell." More corrosive, poisonous "black" blood.

Brienne's confessional to the Elder Brother on the Quiet Isle is described thus: "All of it came pouring out of Brienne then, like black blood from a wound.." The image here is of a lancing, the "black blood" being the sad and bitter memories that Brienne has been holding close for so long. So, once again - black blood is here equated with something malign and poisonous.

In Dance, Bloodraven responds to Bran's "Are you the three-eyed crow?" with: "'A...crow?' The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. 'Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood.'" Another reference to black blood being a brother of the Night's Watch. (As an aside, I find this reponse to Bran's query to be quite curious. It's almost as if Bloodraven doesn't understand the question. Bran asks him specifically if he is the three-eyed crow of his dreams, but Bloodraven responds as if he had been asking about his stint in the Night's Watch. I know that it seems to be a given that Bloodraven is indeed the three-eyed crow, but it's the above exchange that makes me wonder if that's really the case...)

When Theon mercy kills Ralf Kenning, who is dying of poison: "When he laid the edge of the blade against the swollen throat of the creature on the straw, the skin split open in a gout of black blood and yellow pus." Yet again, the "black blood=poison" reference.

Jon, in one of his internal monologues where he is wrestling with his vows, says: "If one of my men told me his sister was in peril, I would tell him that was no concern of his. Once a man had said the words his blood was black. Black as a bastard's heart." Here, "black blood = black brother".

As Melisandre sits before the fire, seeing visions: "The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her." This could be just an atmospheric description of the blood - blood does look black in firelight - but the implication is more that the fire force inside her is somehow malign, so I'm liking the black blood = poison reference here.

Drogon apparently has black blood: "...The dragon gave one last hiss and stretched out flat upon his belly. Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him, smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands." More "smoking, black blood", just like Mel! (Aside: both Balerion and Drogon breathe black fire.)

There are multiple references to blood looking black in low light situations, but that seems like just an atmospheric description. There are also several references to the blood of the dead being black, presumably because it looks that way when it is dried up and crusty. Plus, the black blood that congeals in the extremities of the wights.

So, basically, we have dead things with black blood, poisoned things with black blood, Night's Watchmen and their bastards with black blood, and at least one red priestess and one dragon with black blood. Plus lots of blood that looks black when it's dark out.

[Ser Lepus]

But also, and maybe its convenience and ease of Storytelling, why is there only one line of Starks? We know why Brandon and Benjen had no children, but why didn't they have cousins? Benjen took the Black, and Brandon was killed, but there aren't exactly a wide birth of Starks married to such and such house, like we have with Lannisters. The Karstarks are the only example, but are also old enough of a line that it's not exactly a close lineage anymore.

Was it always that only one Stark is allowed to produce heirs, and basically the women didn't count?

There are Starks (far removed cousins) in White Arbor, but people seem to regard them as unimportant (Lord Manderly doesn´t even think of using them)...Myrcella makes a lot of the difference between the Lannisters of the Rock (the main bloodline) and the Lannisters of Lannisport (junior branches), and it seems the same happens to the Starks of White Arbor...

It seems like Great Lords push away their far removed cousins, trying to cut their bonds with colateral branches and dismiss them, probably to make them look unimportant in the eyes of the minor nobility, and avoid having to face rival bloodlines trying to make a claim...and if they manage to convince the majority of the people that those cousins are unimportant (they are no "real Starks" or "real Lannisters"), then they become irrelevant (will never manage to be taken seriously and will never manage to gather support if they try something); in Dunkensdale there are many surviving minor branches of the extinct house Darklyn (the Darkes, and so on), but they are so far removed from the main branch that they have become commoners (a Darke woman was married to a innkeeper) and nobody thinks of them as possible claimants to the lordship (they are so unimportant that the current lord of Dukensdale haven´t even bothered to eliminate them).

[mrazny]

There are Starks (far removed cousins) in White Arbor, but people seem to regard them as unimportant (Lord Manderly doesn´t even think of using them)...Myrcella makes a lot of the difference between the Lannisters of the Rock (the main bloodline) and the Lannisters of Lannisport (junior branches), and it seems the same happens to the Starks of White Arbor...

It seems like Great Lords push away their far removed cousins, trying to cut their bonds with colateral branches and dismiss them, probably to make them look unimportant in the eyes of the minor nobility, and avoid having to face rival bloodlines trying to make a claim...and if they manage to convince the majority of the people that those cousins are unimportant (they are no "real Starks" or "real Lannisters"), then they become irrelevant (will never manage to taken seriously and will never manage to gather support if they try something); in Dunkensdale there are many surviving minor branches of the extinct house Darklyn (the Darkes, and so on), but they are so far removed from the main branch that they have become commoners (a Darke woman was married to a innkeeper) and nobody thinks of them as possible claimants to the lordship (they are so unimportant that the current lord of Dukensdale haven´t even bothered to eliminate them).

I'd have to re-read the chapter to be certain (and recaps between this site's wiki and the towerofthehand are still gestating), but i don't recall them naming them the White Arbor Starks so much as Stark cousins. Not to say they can't be, but there is always the chance these are Stark women being married off to various Lords around the North, since women don't take the black they can't really be *removed* without suspicion, or just in the general coincidence of traditions. I don't think you could just have a "well the Stark women just go about their business til they die. No love, marriage or family." So yes, perhaps there are many more Stark men that have had children, the stories just haven't fleshed them out much. But we do have the case of no one mentioning Rickard Stark as having siblings unless I missed it.

[Ser Lepus]

I'd have to re-read the chapter to be certain (and recaps between this site's wiki and the towerofthehand are still gestating), but i don't recall them naming them the White Arbor Starks so much as Stark cousins. Not to say they can't be, but there is always the chance these are Stark women being married off to various Lords around the North, since women don't take the black they can't really be *removed* without suspicion, or just in the general coincidence of traditions. I don't think you could just have a "well the Stark women just go about their business til they die. No love, marriage or family." So yes, perhaps there are many more Stark men that have had children, the stories just haven't fleshed them out much. But we do have the case of no one mentioning Rickard Stark as having siblings unless I missed it.

I´m speaking of third, fourth and even more far removed cousins; they are mentioned by Catelyn when she is in Riverrun, discussing with Robb who to name heir to Winterfell just after they have learned of the presumed deaths of Bran and Rickon; both Robb and Catelyn think he should disown Sansa and Arya so as to avoid a Lannister claimant, but then Catelyn proposes the far removed Stark cousins from White Arbor as potential heirs, and Robb says "Jon is more of a Stark than any of those".

The funny thing is, both of them are forgetting about Benjen, who was also alive as far as they know, is a legitimate Stark, son of a Stark lord, and suffer no more obstacles than Jon...but even Catelyn (who would prefer any option over Jon) forgets about him.

[FanTasy]

The funny thing is, both of them are forgetting about Benjen, who was also alive as far as they know, is a legitimate Stark, son of a Stark lord, and suffer no more obstacles than Jon...but even Catelyn (who would prefer any option over Jon) forgets about him.

But maybe they considered Benjen lost beyond the wall. There could have been a raven from lord Mormont.

[mrazny]

I´m speaking of third, fourth and even more far removed cousins; they are mentioned by Catelyn when she is in Riverrun, discussing with Robb who to name heir to Winterfell just after they have learned of the presumed deaths of Bran and Rickon; both Robb and Catelyn think he should disown Sansa and Arya so as to avoid a Lannister claimant, but then Catelyn proposes the far removed Stark cousins from White Arbor as potential heirs, and Robb says "Jon is more of a Stark than any of those".

The funny thing is, both of them are forgetting about Benjen, who was also alive as far as they know, is a legitimate Stark, son of a Stark lord, and suffer no more obstacles than Jon...but even Catelyn (who would prefer any option over Jon) forgets about him.

Yeah, I'm just curious if any of them are actually named "Ben Stark", or if they carry some other last name since they're connection to the Starks is matrilinial.

Not mentioning BenJen is also strange, especially if it's in the case of comparing cousins as heirs. Succession of a throne would first go through children obviously before you go through brothers, but i guess the obstacle is the Oath, and Jon would have more claim than Benjen if you take away the oath?

[Eyron]

I´m speaking of third, fourth and even more far removed cousins; they are mentioned by Catelyn when she is in Riverrun, discussing with Robb who to name heir to Winterfell just after they have learned of the presumed deaths of Bran and Rickon; both Robb and Catelyn think he should disown Sansa and Arya so as to avoid a Lannister claimant, but then Catelyn proposes the far removed Stark cousins from White Arbor as potential heirs, and Robb says "Jon is more of a Stark than any of those".

The funny thing is, both of them are forgetting about Benjen, who was also alive as far as they know, is a legitimate Stark, son of a Stark lord, and suffer no more obstacles than Jon...but even Catelyn (who would prefer any option over Jon) forgets about him.

Are you not talking about the Vale cousins here? Because from what I remember Catelyn speaks to Robb about a sister of Edwyle Stark that married to a Royce and they had daughters that married lords from the Vale.

[FanTasy]

Not mentioning BenJen is also strange, especially if it's in the case of comparing cousins as heirs. Succession of a throne would first go through children obviously before you go through brothers, but i guess the obstacle is the Oath, and Jon would have more claim than Benjen if you take away the oath?

Hmm .... the will was meant to prevent that Tyrion - the Lannisters - got Winterfell, through Sansa. Benjen would not have a better right than Sansa - if he was free of his oath. But Jon would.

[mrazny]

Another weird wrinkle with what the Stark's have done historically and what they DID do in more recent times... Ned I believe is the first Stark to marry someone other than a lady of the north.

I cannot assume i have this right, I need to get my re-read on from the start of the novels; was Lyanna *Actually* betrothed to Robert? Or was this just Robert idolizing Lyanna, and wanting to be betrothed? Isn't he the one that says they were to be married? Did anyone else actually confirm this? He's brash enough that he would assume he'd get her hand if he asked. I always got the sense that Ned kept quiet when Robert talked of Lyanna not just because of secrets but because Ned knew Robert was presuming too much about his importance in her life, regardless of Rhaegar's "kidnapping".

Walking along with Lyanna betrothed to Robert, were there other Stark women betrothed outside of the North? This seems to be a newer development.

Further, Theon walking with Lady Ryswell in the crypts led to some disturbing links. I'd venture that The crypts which are ominous enough are a perfect setting to reveal past secrets that are equally ominous. To further hint at how disastrous this bit of history is, they also talk of how bad of an omen it is that the Iron Swords in the crypts have been removed.

What's revealed in this passage? That is was Lord Rickard's Maester, a "gray rat" according to Ryswell, that convinced Rickard to have Brandon, then eventually Ned to be wed to Catelyn instead of a Lady of the North.

It's also specifically the LAST breath of Maester Luwin to remove the last Male Starks from Winterfell. Of course this was logical, and perhaps the advice to Rickard was also logical, but the logic of the maesters is shown by events in the novels to be subverting the lore of the North.

Maesters are plotting to kill of Dragons. Maesters are interupting the traditions of the North. Are they unknowingly causing horrible things or Planning to cause horrible things?

Maesters are very tied in with the Hightowers, who were First Men. So are they First Men that hold a grudge against the other First Men? Or are they knowledgable enough about all of the traditions that these were accidental subversions?

Maesters killing dragons kind of sound like grudge holding from the Grand Maester that got fed to a dragon, Aegon II i want to say? Are they just secretly vengeful people causing unknown damage?

[Ser Lepus]

Are you not talking about the Vale cousins here? Because from what I remember Catelyn speaks to Robb about a sister of Edwyle Stark that married to a Royce and they had daughters that married lords from the Vale.

It seems I´m wrong: the White Harbor Stark cousins are mentioned by GRRM in an interview, not in the books themselves:

There may be offshoots and branches of the Stark family in the North, most likely in White Harbor and Barrowton (SSM: 1)

I was mixing Eddard´s Vale first cousins through his aunt with the even more removed cousins from Barrowtown and White Harbor, but the fact is, there are junior Stark branches in the North, so no creepy secret family tradition of discretely removing unwanted Stark males...

[mrazny]

It seems I´m wrong: the White Harbor Stark cousins are mentioned by GRRM in an interview, not in the books themselves:

There may be offshoots and branches of the Stark family in the North, most likely in White Harbor and Barrowton (SSM: 1)

I was mixing Eddard´s Vale first cousins through his aunt with the even more removed cousins from Barrowtown and White Harbor, but the fact is, there are junior Stark branches in the North, so no creepy secret family tradition of discretely removing unwanted Stark males...

Yes, the existence of cousins does diminish the possibilities, but it doesn't quell it. He speaks of Branches, not of others that carry the Stark name. Not to put too much into one word responses, but GRRM was definitive about the no relatives above Ned. Yes there are female Starks that have been married off, but no evidence yet of Males.

All of this could be a dead-end Rabbit Hole, but I would understand traditions to limit the propagation of magic. Luwin is also one of the declared in the books very few maesters to earn his valyrian chain. There may be an established tradition to have Maesters assigned to Winterfell that have this particular chain, but we know very little about Walys besides that he's a bastard from the Reach.

There are some weird traditions in the North, and there seems to be magic tied to the Starks with no other Northerners displaying a similar magic yet beyond Jojen Reed. The Wildlings are the only other Wargs evidenced. Perhaps that's not a coincidence that magic is mostly contained north of the Wall.

[Eyron]

Luckily, I do have the e-books :)

The references are in chronological order, from Game through Dance:

Yoren says to Eddard Stark: "You might say as Benjen Stark is why we're talking though. His blood ran black. Made him my brother as much as yours." This sounds like "black blood" means basically "a brother of the Night's Watch".

Khal Drogo's festering wound is described: "Black blood ran slow and thick from his open wound." Here, "black blood" seems to represent poisoned blood, which we also see later with Gregor Clegane.

Dywen also calls Craster's blood "black". Sam tells Jon: "...He marries his daughters and obeys no law but those he makes himself. And Dywen told Grenn he's got black blood in his veins. His mother was a wildling woman who lay with a ranger, so he's a bas..." Again, this reference simply seems to equate "black blood" with a connection to the Night's Watch.

After he has killed the miller's boys, Theon has a nightmare about being chased through the woods by "...great wolves the size of horses with the heads of small children. Oh, mercy, mercy. Blood dripped from their mouths black as pitch, burning holes in the snow where it fell." More corrosive, poisonous "black" blood.

Brienne's confessional to the Elder Brother on the Quiet Isle is described thus: "All of it came pouring out of Brienne then, like black blood from a wound.." The image here is of a lancing, the "black blood" being the sad and bitter memories that Brienne has been holding close for so long. So, once again - black blood is here equated with something malign and poisonous.

In Dance, Bloodraven responds to Bran's "Are you the three-eyed crow?" with: "'A...crow?' The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. 'Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood.'" Another reference to black blood being a brother of the Night's Watch. (As an aside, I find this reponse to Bran's query to be quite curious. It's almost as if Bloodraven doesn't understand the question. Bran asks him specifically if he is the three-eyed crow of his dreams, but Bloodraven responds as if he had been asking about his stint in the Night's Watch. I know that it seems to be a given that Bloodraven is indeed the three-eyed crow, but it's the above exchange that makes me wonder if that's really the case...)

When Theon mercy kills Ralf Kenning, who is dying of poison: "When he laid the edge of the blade against the swollen throat of the creature on the straw, the skin split open in a gout of black blood and yellow pus." Yet again, the "black blood=poison" reference.

Jon, in one of his internal monologues where he is wrestling with his vows, says: "If one of my men told me his sister was in peril, I would tell him that was no concern of his. Once a man had said the words his blood was black. Black as a bastard's heart." Here, "black blood = black brother".

As Melisandre sits before the fire, seeing visions: "The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her." This could be just an atmospheric description of the blood - blood does look black in firelight - but the implication is more that the fire force inside her is somehow malign, so I'm liking the black blood = poison reference here.

Drogon apparently has black blood: "...The dragon gave one last hiss and stretched out flat upon his belly. Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him, smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands." More "smoking, black blood", just like Mel! (Aside: both Balerion and Drogon breathe black fire.)

There are multiple references to blood looking black in low light situations, but that seems like just an atmospheric description. There are also several references to the blood of the dead being black, presumably because it looks that way when it is dried up and crusty. Plus, the black blood that congeals in the extremities of the wights.

So, basically, we have dead things with black blood, poisoned things with black blood, Night's Watchmen and their bastards with black blood, and at least one red priestess and one dragon with black blood. Plus lots of blood that looks black when it's dark out.

Wow, thanks for the effort!

It seems GRRM likes to write "black blood" in all possible circumstances :D

Black blood seems to mean something bad in general, like something that is doomed, via poison, illness, death, perhaps sorcery and then the Night's Watch... That makes me a bit uncomfortable, why do the NW have "black blood" exactly? Maybe it has something to do with them being doomed, or that their purpose is tied to death, as in dying for the realms of men, like lambs of sacrifice. Or am I just reading too much in this?

I also thought Bloodravens answer to Bran was curious, like he did not know what Bran meant, but at first I thought BR's answer was just meant to help us understand who he was, a clue from GRRM. It could certainly be something more meaningful though.

Did not Jon dream of Bran in the same manner later on? When Bran wanted to help him open his eye and learn his ability. That made me think perhaps the 3EC was in fact Bran himself, or rather future Bran.

I have gotten the feeling that the dreams, visions and prophetic dreams are sent to certain people, as discussed above in the thread, by someone or perhaps more than one. I mentioned before that Jojens greendreams seem to be aimed to achieve a specific purpose, and I think the other dreams are too. And since they are about future events in a few cases or meant to steer the receiver to a certain path, that someone are sending them from the future, and that someone is probably Bran himself (and possibly others). I think that is the way he can communicate with and influence people and events in the past, so maybe he sent the 3EC dream to himself, heh...

I know it's a bit of a stretch, but I can't see any other tolerable way for Bran to influence the past, and from what I understand he is going to do that in some way. I hate thinking about the time-travel issues, but if he has changed the past we must already have seen it happened without knowing it was him.

Fun implication: If future-Bran has a way to speak through or inspire Mormonts crow we should heed his words. Jon Snow King... and also corn corn :)

Corn is going to be very important in the future, I tell you!

I guess that is true in a way, the realm really needed to start thinking about the food issue before winter came...