ME3. Indoctrination Theory, Spoilers abound. You have been warned.

[Greywolf2375]

Can we change the title of the thread so that my work filters stop yelling at me each time I try to go into Entertainment?

[Sivin]

And then what? I still am left with no information on the war, no information on my squadmates, no information on anything that I cared about over 3 games. That's still an unbelievably shitty ending. Because if it is true, then you never find out what the Crucible does, never find TIM, and never end up on the Catalyst in the first place. All you're left with, then, is "Shepard got lazed by Harbinger, now here's Buzz Aldrin telling a children's story on a different planet that implies we don't have space travel."

Why do you need to see it?

If all this is true, then the fight goes on. Against impossible odds and facing certain doom.

It's like the only part of 'The Matrix: Revolutions' that doesn't suck.

Smith: Why do you do it? Why do you continue to get up, why do you fight? You know it's impossible, you know you can't win. Why, why, why!?!

Neo: Because I choose to.

It fits the entire tone of the series and makes a lot more sense than having you actually fight to the death. Because that would take way too long and you'd end up stuck in a room facing infinite enemies. Then you'd bitch about "why can't I win! Whaaaaaaaa"

Can we change the title of the thread so that my work filters stop yelling at me each time I try to go into Entertainment?

On it.

[Fez]

Why do you need to see it?

If all this is true, then the fight goes on. Against impossible odds and facing certain doom.

It's like the only part of 'The Matrix: Revolutions' that doesn't suck.

Smith: Why do you do it? Why do you continue to get up, why do you fight? You know it's impossible, you know you can't win. Why, why, why!?!

Neo: Because I choose to.

It fits the entire tone of the series and makes a lot more sense than having you actually fight to the death. Because that would take way too long and you'd end up stuck in a room facing infinite enemies. Then you'd bitch about "why can't I win! Whaaaaaaaa"

Or like (spoilers for a movie that came out in January)

The Gray. It ends right as Liam Neeson and the alpha male wolf are charging at each other; the final fight unseen. And in that case there also was a not-totally-clear after-the-credits scene confirming that at least on some level Liam Neeson had won.

Although if this is all true, I do hope it means Bioware has more content up their sleeves. Their cryptic tweets to questions about various elements of this theory would certainly suggest it.

[Merentha]

Why do you need to see it?

If all this is true, then the fight goes on. Against impossible odds and facing certain doom.

Well, one, not actually certain. The Reapers are on plan d or e at this point. They can be beaten, and humanity has weapons that they never should have had. Thanix cannons/missiles, for instance. Two take down a destroyer, and the Turians take down several Sovereign-class dreadnoughts on Palaven. Hell, it took them 200 years to wipe out the Protheans, and the Protheans got their fleet jacked up and completely separated by the Citadel trap.

It's like the only part of 'The Matrix: Revolutions' that doesn't suck.

And you know what happens? We see this ending. It doesn't just cut off. Its not that you don't know who wins that fight, its that you don't even know if that fight was there. Speaking of the Matrix, ReaperChild's choice is identical to what's offered at the end of Reloaded. Except Shepard goes "oh, okay" and doesn't go save Trinity.

Smith: Why do you do it? Why do you continue to get up, why do you fight? You know it's impossible, you know you can't win. Why, why, why!?!

And this would be fantastic if you can tell ReaperChild this exact thing, but instead, he presents you with the choice to keep fighting. And is alright with it. The payoff in the scene mentioned is Neo's continuation in the face of adversity and Smith's complete disbelief. There is nothing of the sort here at all. It'd be like if Neo kept fighting and Smith went "oh, alright then. Carry on." It would mean nothing.

It fits the entire tone of the series and makes a lot more sense than having you actually fight to the death. Because that would take way too long and you'd end up stuck in a room facing infinite enemies. Then you'd bitch about "why can't I win! Whaaaaaaaa"

Not actually true. I've already said that I'd pick an ending that condemned the fleet to death if it meant ignoring the ReaperChild. And I wouldn't actually want to face the waves of unstoppable enemies either. But my schlocky 80s scifi needs an ending, even if that ending is watching cutscene Shepard watch the entire fleet die and knowing that its over. Because, right now, your theory is a) that Shepard is breaking indoctrination and b ) has lost no matter what, which makes point a) rather moot. On other forums, I've cited the ending of Freespace2 as a fantastic one (you die and accomplished nothing in the long run) because it fit the tone of the game. Having Shepard's long run of winning impossible situations finally catching up to her would be okay, if there was any kind of payoff at all.

But I suppose you could just assume that I'm unhappy because Shepard doesn't get happy sexytime with everyone and its all sunshine. Shepard's resolve and strength of will was never in doubt, so "breaking the indoctrination" (even if we accept that as the intended message there, and I don't) being the final ending is an answer to a question that was never asked at all up until that point.

(The fact that the supposed "best" destroy option necessitates genociding the Geth, when paragon-shep is all about agency for everyone makes it really stick in my throat too).

edit: Just because something worked in another medium doesn't mean it does in this context. Shepard could also sit down and play a game of chess with Death for her soul. It'd be stupid, but because it worked well in another movie doesn't mean it would here.

[The Mance]

Their cryptic tweets to questions about various elements of this theory would certainly suggest it.

I've never followed any sort of post-release press about any other games before this, so i don't know what the SOP of the developers would be. But, with the game just having hit the shelves last week, couldn't all these cryptic responses be due to a "no official spoilers until X number of days/weeks/months have passed" policy from Bioware?

[Weak With The Dawn]

I've never followed any sort of post-release press about any other games before this, so i don't know what the SOP of the developers would be. But, with the game just having hit the shelves last week, couldn't all these cryptic responses be due to a "no official spoilers until X number of days/weeks/months have passed" policy from Bioware?

It could be, but then there are things like this:

https://twitter.com/...680647869243392

or this

https://twitter.com/#!/DaCajunRTard/status/179679799235715072

They could just keep quiet instead of teasing the audience.

[Sivin]

It could be, but then there are things like this:

https://twitter.com/...680647869243392

They could just keep quiet instead of teasing the audience.

And why can't they say unless something really fishy is going down?

The game is over, the series is finished. There's got to be something else if they're being coy like this.

[Weak With The Dawn]

One more for my fellow hopefuls:

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0uflhowQO1qkfer3o1_500.png

[Fez]

Here's another

https://twitter.com/...666685740072961

So again, either a major company is full of people who troll their fans for the lulz, or something's coming.

ETA:

This one https://twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179688066787704832 could just mean that hey there'll be a prequel at some point, but in context of all these other tweets; I don't think so.

[Sivin]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/9476-Mass-Effect-3-The-Process

Glad I decided to look at it.

[Weak With The Dawn]

Community manager on Bioware forums is directing confused posters to the indocrination theory thread.

i feel like we're purposely getting trolled :-/

[Werthead]

On other forums, I've cited the ending of Freespace2 as a fantastic one (you die and accomplished nothing in the long run) because it fit the tone of the game.

Freespace 2 has one of the greatest endings of all time. But then it's not comparable to ME3 because there was supposed to be a Freespace 3. However, Violition got bought by another company, FS2 disgracefully bombed and the space combat genre vanished almost overnight so it never happened. But FS2 was not supposed to be the end of the story. The fact it is right now is kind of awesome, because the Shivans really are completely batshit inscrutably random in a way the Reapers could never dream of being (the Shivans don't give an utter shit about talking to anyone at all, whilst Harbinger and Sovereign were downright chatty in comparison).

Also, Freespace 2 does give you the freedom of choice at the end of the game. Kind of.

If you happen to be close to the jump point when Canopus goes supernova, you can jump out of the system and survive. It's a little bit BS as the main centre of the battle is 11km away and there's no real reason for you to be over there unless you know what's coming on a replay. But the game does adjust and gives you a happy ending if you do happen to survive.

[Weak With The Dawn]

If you use a save editor to adjust your game saves, all saves are categorized as follows:

Out in a Blaze of Glory

Unfinished

Live to Fight Another Day

Everyone who has finished a game with high ems (regardless of which end option they choose) has seen their save checked as 'Live to Fight Another Day'

[Fez]

Gotta say, this theory is really messing with my Insanity run. All of a sudden I'm looking for clues in everything that happens and noticing the various things that people have mentioned in the super-long thread over on the Bioware forums. And the Normandy, which, the Joker/Collector episode in ME2 notwithstanding, has always been the safe haven away from the crazy battles you go through all of a sudden has a very sinister vibe to it. It's cool, but kinda freaky.

Anyway I noticed two things during the Grissom Academy mission that have nothing to do with Indoctrination but are just things I didn't noticed before. The first is that at one point that eerie "dadadaaaa" sound that shows up all the time in the Xenosaga series is used; and the second is that whoever was doing the voice of the Cerberus PA guy seemed to be strongly channeling Michael Caine.

Also, I still haven't decided if I like the Particle Rifle or not; its so different from the other ARs, and I'm not sure about it.

Question, btw, does anyone know if the galaxy at war assets "lock in" at 100% or if they will still decrease same as always?

[Weak With The Dawn]

Gotta say, this theory is really messing with my Insanity run. All of a sudden I'm looking for clues in everything that happens and noticing the various things that people have mentioned in the super-long thread over on the Bioware forums. And the Normandy, which, the Joker/Collector episode in ME2 notwithstanding, has always been the safe haven away from the crazy battles you go through all of a sudden has a very sinister vibe to it. It's cool, but kinda freaky.

Anyway I noticed two things during the Grissom Academy mission that have nothing to do with Indoctrination but are just things I didn't noticed before. The first is that at one point that eerie "dadadaaaa" sound that shows up all the time in the Xenosaga series is used; and the second is that whoever was doing the voice of the Cerberus PA guy seemed to be strongly channeling Michael Caine.

Also, I still haven't decided if I like the Particle Rifle or not; its so different from the other ARs, and I'm not sure about it.

Question, btw, does anyone know if the galaxy at war assets "lock in" at 100% or if they will still decrease same as always?

GAW decreases no matter what. Signed in today and was at 97% after being at 100 yesterday.

What class are you doing your Insanity run on. I'm going through as an infiltrator and it's not as hard as I expected it to be. (Only at the Citadel Coup mission).

[Sivin]

Anyway I noticed two things during the Grissom Academy mission that have nothing to do with Indoctrination but are just things I didn't noticed before. The first is that at one point that eerie "dadadaaaa" sound that shows up all the time in the Xenosaga series is used; and the second is that whoever was doing the voice of the Cerberus PA guy seemed to be strongly channeling Michael Caine.

Micheal Caine, you say? That's weird, because I would have sworn that he sounded like my english-accent Joseph Goebbels impersonation...

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Violition

You do this every time, Wert. The word is Volition :P

[Kennit]

Question, btw, does anyone know if the galaxy at war assets "lock in" at 100% or if they will still decrease same as always?

I believe they decrease by one 1% each time you quit the game.

[The Mance]

Excellent critique of the ending from Gamefront

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/

You’ll also visit every major planet in the galaxy, reveal the truth about Prothean civilization, watch as friends die, innocents are slaughtered, whole cultures are threatened with destruction. Every moment of the game feels a necessary part of the war effort, every decision feels critical, and as you begin the final mission, you actually feel the weight of 5 years of play, dozens of well-written friendships, and 15,000 years of galactic civilization are behind you. It’s a glorious accomplishment. And that accomplishment is completely undone as the story is wrapped up via a barely-interactive cutscene lasting less than 10 minutes.

It’s safe to assume that the fleets who travelled to Earth for the final Reaper battle were stocked with supplies, but with the Mass Relay network knocked out, they’re all basically stuck there. . . .

. . . . The assumption then has to be that everyone scrambles to find a colony to support them, and/or they all die. In all likelihood — faced with starvation, the krogan slowly eat everybody.

[Jon AS]

Wow, took me longer than I had planned to finish the game. Damn real life for messing with my video game time.

Some stuff, like the decrease in branching dialogue and the ME2 crew being limited to cameos, was disappointing, and I had too many glitches in cutscenes for my liking (weird character animations, characters either turning invisible or the camera deciding to focus on a blank wall while somebody talked) but overall this was a great game. Level design and gameplay have again been improved. The Vanguard is a one trick pony (or two if we count charge/shotgun and charge/nova as seperate), but holy shit is it a fun trick. I very quickly dropped everything but a shotgun and half the time I wouldn't even use that (incidentally, am I the only one who thought that there were too many different guns in the game? I think that was better done in ME2...) and just zip around the battlefield feeling awesome. Unless there were Banshees or Atlases involved. Stupid insta-kill melée attacks. It was also a long game, made even longer by the fact that I was playing on Insanity and at the end of the day I'm not that good...

The plot progressed well, allowing you to recover and gaining a few great victorious moments, then smacking you down hard again to motivate you for the final run. Everything was fantastic, the fight at the missile batteries left me feeling physically exhausted...and then the ending came. An ending that is unsatisfying from a narrative point of view, ignores what made the series great (my choices shaping the experience and characters whose fate I really care about) and doesn't make any fucking sense! What. The. Hell.

Is this Bioware messing up in an almost unbelievable fashion? Is this a setup for future DLC? I think denstorebog made a good point how that doesn't make much sense in the way that resolution has to be achieved again if that's the case. Is this Bioware trying to emulate the hero of their game: doing the impossible in uniting all Mass Effect players in outrage against the ending, at least temporarily suspending all conflict on their forums?