George RR Martin on Land of always winter....

[himalyanjon]

We have a few options to see the Lands of Always Winter:

• Benjen prologue/epilogue,
  
• Regular Benjen chapters (seems unlikely),
  
• A different persons prologue/epilogue beyond the Wall (contradicts the North/South prologue switch theory),
  
• Bran leaving the cave,
  
• Bran warged into Summer exploring the Lands of Always Winter,
  
• Ghost chapters, after Jon's death, looking for Summer and Bran.
  

Don't know which one is the most acceptable.

JON in these options i think no one thinks much of my davos seaworth theory though

[Fruitcakes]

Thank you for the link!

(About "edited for grammar" - my first language isn't English. I'm Scandinavian. Sometimes I see the mistakes I make, sometimes I don't even know I am making a mistake.)

[himalyanjon]

Thank you for the link!

(About "edited for grammar" - my first language isn't English. I'm Scandinavian. Sometimes I see the mistakes I make, sometimes I don't even know I am making a mistake.)

nah that was mistake post (between english is my fourth language)

[Fruitcakes]

lol. Ok. Very interesting topic, by the way. I like Jon a lot, and was very distressed at his last chapter in ADWD. Of course it can be used against me that I "just want Jon to survive", I'm kind of guilty of that. But I don't want him to survive on a fluke either, not that I think GRRM would let that happen.

It's a cool bit of information that we'll learn more about the far North in the coming books. It's not my absolute favourite storyline, I'm too much of a sucker for anything Arya (and Jaqen/Faceless Men) for that, but I do like Jon a lot, and also Bran, even if their surroundings aren't the most intriguing for me. I'm sure that whoever it'll be to make that grand voyage, it'll be a fascinating and exciting read.

[himalyanjon]

lol. Ok. Very interesting topic, by the way. I like Jon a lot, and was very distressed at his last chapter in ADWD. Of course it can be used against me that I "just want Jon to survive", I'm kind of guilty of that. But I don't want him to survive on a fluke either, not that I think GRRM would let that happen.

It's a cool bit of information that we'll learn more about the far North in the coming books. It's not my absolute favourite storyline, I'm too much of a sucker for anything Arya (and Jaqen/Faceless Men) for that, but I do like Jon a lot, and also Bran, even if their surroundings aren't the most intriguing for me. I'm sure that whoever it'll be to make that grand voyage, it'll be a fascinating and exciting read.

yeah plus i posted( a not so popular topic) about how I think there might be a hidden city of others up north....... now that would be ( what would the englishmen say) smokin

[himalyanjon]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/65833-the-unkown-city-of-the-others/page__fromsearch__1

[Fruitcakes]

Could be, but since we have no basis in the text to say what's up there, except that Bran finds it scary ("the heart of winter", I think the words were?), I don't know what to make (or not make) of it.

It reminds me of the creation myth of the old Norse mythology, where there is a big nothing called "the Ginnunga void" (or similar), surrounded by on one side Niflheim, where it is always cold and icy, and on the other side Muspelheim, the home of fire. When the mist from Niflheim and the warmth from Muspelheim meet in the middle of the void, damp and dew is created, and out of that comes the giant Ymir, from who's corpse the Gods will eventually create the world. I'm not sure about Niflheim (cold), but Muspell is actually a person of kind, the king of Muspelheim. I guess "Nifl" could also be personified, but I don't know about that. "Nifl" could be related to the German word for fog, "Nebel", which makes sense, I think. Anyway, that's how I can imagine a "heart of winter", where the mist, the fog, the "essence of winter" itself seeps out of the ground and gives birth to its own kind of beings - call them ice demons or winter children or whatever - but I see them more in a mythological sense than beings so human-like that they'll have their own cities and elaborate societies.

Whatever they are, they're not humans, and they're a threat to the very existence of humankind, so they are "evil", in a human sense. I don't know how much I need to have them explained, they represent to me the same that aliens or malicious ghosts do in other stories - they're a negation of humanity, and they seek the end of humanity. Maybe they have cities, and maybe they seep up from the ground, and maybe they just happen to be, I don't know. As said, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

[himalyanjon]

Could be, but since we have no basis in the text to say what's up there, except that Bran finds it scary ("the heart of winter", I think the words were?), I don't know what to make (or not make) of it.

It reminds me of the creation myth of the old Norse mythology, where there is a big nothing called "the Ginnunga void" (or similar), surrounded by on one side Niflheim, where it is always cold and icy, and on the other side Muspelheim, the home of fire. When the mist from Niflheim and the warmth from Muspelheim meet in the middle of the void, damp and dew is created, and out of that comes the giant Ymir, from who's corpse the Gods will eventually create the world. I'm not sure about Niflheim (cold), but Muspell is actually a person of kind, the king of Muspelheim. I guess "Nifl" could also be personified, but I don't know about that. "Nifl" could be related to the German word for fog, "Nebel", which makes sense, I think. Anyway, that's how I can imagine a "heart of winter", where the mist, the fog, the "essence of winter" itself seeps out of the ground and gives birth to its own kind of beings - call them ice demons or winter children or whatever - but I see them more in a mythological sense than beings so human-like that they'll have their own cities and elaborate societies.

Whatever they are, they're not humans, and they're a threat to the very existence of humankind, so they are "evil", in a human sense. I don't know how much I need to have them explained, they represent to me the same that aliens or malicious ghosts do in other stories - they're a negation of humanity, and they seek the end of humanity. Maybe they have cities, and maybe they seep up from the ground, and maybe they just happen to be, I don't know. As said, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

wow maybe GRRM read Norse mythology (ironborn are obviously a type of vikings). but yes i think that you maybe right when you read his whole quote its a large place forest are just begining an there are mountain as the mighty himalyas there is something ther a kind of ogre socitey( ruled by the gret other) i'm sure of it but who will be he 1st to discover it???

[Fruitcakes]

I'm sure GRRM has read Norse mythology, just as he has read tons of history and about other religions/mythologies :) The world he has created, is very rich, and with elements from so many different cultures.

Who will be the first to discover "the heart of winter" is the open question indeed!

[Crown]

Why do people think that Davos will explore the Lands of Always Winter? Please elaborate.

[Black Crow]

Could be, but since we have no basis in the text to say what's up there, except that Bran finds it scary ("the heart of winter", I think the words were?), I don't know what to make (or not make) of it.

It reminds me of the creation myth of the old Norse mythology, where there is a big nothing called "the Ginnunga void" (or similar), surrounded by on one side Niflheim, where it is always cold and icy, and on the other side Muspelheim, the home of fire. When the mist from Niflheim and the warmth from Muspelheim meet in the middle of the void, damp and dew is created, and out of that comes the giant Ymir, from who's corpse the Gods will eventually create the world. I'm not sure about Niflheim (cold), but Muspell is actually a person of kind, the king of Muspelheim. I guess "Nifl" could also be personified, but I don't know about that. "Nifl" could be related to the German word for fog, "Nebel", which makes sense, I think. Anyway, that's how I can imagine a "heart of winter", where the mist, the fog, the "essence of winter" itself seeps out of the ground and gives birth to its own kind of beings - call them ice demons or winter children or whatever - but I see them more in a mythological sense than beings so human-like that they'll have their own cities and elaborate societies.

Whatever they are, they're not humans, and they're a threat to the very existence of humankind, so they are "evil", in a human sense. I don't know how much I need to have them explained, they represent to me the same that aliens or malicious ghosts do in other stories - they're a negation of humanity, and they seek the end of humanity. Maybe they have cities, and maybe they seep up from the ground, and maybe they just happen to be, I don't know. As said, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Very interesting. Something we've been discussing on the Heresy thread on the ADwD side of the board is the possibility that its actually the "White Cold" which first kills and then raises people as Wights rather than the Others/Sidhe, and that the White Cold takes the form of a fog boiling up out of the Heart of Winter. This may be what Bran saw and likewise Mel in her POV vision.

[The Mother of The Others]

Benjen might be alive out there somewhere- not being Coldhands. Maybe we get his prologue/epilogue.

Hey if Benjen is undead he could be the first character to be featured in a prologue and survive it. Sort of. Because he'd die like every other prologue character, but then he'd have the advantage of already being dead so it wouldn't slow him down that much.

[himalyanjon]

Why do people think that Davos will explore the Lands of Always Winter? Please elaborate.

considering all possibilities these are 4 likely choices

1 jon

2 bran

3 davos

4 benjen

davos is going to skagos if you look at the map it is beyond the wall (in a way), where he goes from there is where we get the idea.

[himalyanjon]

Hey if Benjen is undead he could be the first character to be featured in a prologue and survive it. Sort of. Because he'd die like every other prologue character, but then he'd have the advantage of already being dead so it wouldn't slow him down that much.

Why do everyone thinks Benjen will surely be undead how about he being in a wildling community

[Crown]

considering all possibilities these are 4 likely choices

1 jon

2 bran

3 davos

4 benjen

davos is going to skagos if you look at the map it is beyond the wall (in a way), where he goes from there is where we get the idea.

I know, but it seems unlikely for Davos to go to the 'heart of winter'. If we make a list based on their locations we can add Melisandre, Theon and Asha to the list. Considering they're (almost) at the wall aswell.

Why do everyone thinks Benjen will surely be undead how about he being in a wildling community

He has infiltrated the Others, it is known.

[Milcov]

I hope it's Bran because I don't want him to stay in the cave for the rest of the books.

I hope Bran stays in the cave and we only see weirwood glimpses of the past in his hopefully rare chapters. Bran's trapsing from Winterfell to Bloodraven was very dull, I don't want more of him going further north.

[CrypticWeirwood]

or is this place really a earth like planet or is it some middle earth kind of place????

I beg your pardon? Middle-earth is Earth, just at an earlier and forgotten time.

[himalyanjon]

He has infiltrated the Others, it is known.

really where???

[himalyanjon]

I beg your pardon? Middle-earth is Earth, just at an earlier and forgotten time.

you know what i mean does GRRM sees this as a planet??

[Peach Fuzz]

Benjen Stark is gonna be the one who travelled to the lands of always winter i reakon we got a benjen pov coming up....i read something like we ll c the lands of always winter in the next books and the benjen stark mystery will be resolved