466 replies to this topic

[Linda]

Of all the atrocious decisions taken in the adaptation of the second season -- having Joffrey and not Cersei be the one to order the killing of the bastards, having Robb fall for a spunky and socially progressive chick from Volantis, cutting out virtually all of the poignant material between Jon and Qhorin, leaving out virtually all the dark character development from Arya's arc, to name but a few -- the utter travesty that is the show's version of the House of the Undying takes the cake. In fact, it takes the whole dessert table.

I/we will be writing a longer piece on how poorly handled both Dany and Dany's whole storyline have been in the second season, contrasting it with the very clear purpose of Qarth in the books, so right now I am just concentrating on the House of the Undying.

Instead of a single one of the visions that Dany actually sees, we get a vision of Khal Drogo. Talk about a cheap-ass publicity stunt to squeeze Jason Momoa back in. Now, it is true that perhaps some of the visions she sees would be too spoilery on TV as opposed to when read, but why not just compensate for that by toning down what is shown? Or going entirely to Dany hearing but not seeing things? I expect that there would be cuts and changes, in particular I expected some of the visuals to disappear. I did not expect them to just throw everything out.

We have, as of yet, not had a single mention of either the Song of Ice and Fire or the Prince that was Promised in the series. What more, not only did they cut out the visions, they cut the whole prophecy. So far, all we have gotten for Dany is an abbreviated version of Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy.

So, they continue to cut out the past from the story and in addition to that they also cut out most of the prophecies. Both these are very significant elements of the story. Whatever the producers and writers might think, A Song of Ice and Fire isn't just about battles and boobs.

The past still matters, it enriches and makes the present more poignant. We'll likely never see Rhaegar now, not to mention Elia. What viewers will care about them? What viewers will care about Rhaegar and Lyanna when they ultimately have to become more important to the story? What viewers will care particularly about the Martells without any establishing of Elia?

The prophecies...well, who can deny their importance? As we see in A Dance with Dragons, even the most obscure ones do come true, just not in ways one might have expected. Magic isn't just dragons and Others.

A Song of Ice and Fire is a multi-layered and multi-faceted story. That also means that people do read it for different reasons. Some may take in all aspects of the story with near equal enjoyment, others may favour some aspects and dislike others. The mysteries of the past and the prophecies fuel a large amount of the discussion on the forums. They are clearly important aspects for many, many fans. And the show has just ripped them out of the story almost wholesale.

Furious doesn't come close to describing what I am today. Nor does disappointed.

I had said before the season started that for this season, the only thing I really hoped for was that they would get the House of the Undying right. If not, I would find it hard to continue watching. Since they didn't even try to get it right, they just threw it in the trash, I have absolutely no interest in watching any more. Unfortunately, we have a lot tied up in the coverage of the show, so I'll probably have to keep watching to some degree anyway. But I no longer look forward to new episodes because the story has been gutted of what matters the most to me and because I do not expect any of the scenes I truly care about to make it in, at least not without being butchered beyond recognition.

As far as I am concerned, it is no longer an adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire, it is an mainly an original story in the A Song of Ice and Fire setting. And it isn't particularly good.

[Qwop22]

Never mind HotU, that ending was weak. I thought I was suddenly watching The Walking Dead. As so White Walkers just look at Sam and walk right past him? Rrriigghhtttt

[SerMixalot]

Ummm Maester Luwin completely disregards his oath to serve the lord of winterfell by not telling theon about B&R

Now we KNOW Varys is truly a eunich

Dany will burn KL

Drogo WILL return

what else from books 6 and 7 did D&D reveal

[SerMixalot]

The motives of the FM now change to "they will help you seek vengence on that list of yours" instead of death is a gift and the FM do NOT allow personal motives to play into their decision making

and

ARYA DID NOT KILL ANYONE!

[tsunad]

The way it was adapted, the entire House of the Undying plot could have been cut with no damage to the plot or character development.

[TheTrueMithrandir]

can't help but sympathize with you completely Queen of Innuendo,

[Caryn Stark]

How hard would it have been to add a blue rose growing out of the wall? Or to have Quaithe tell her the prophecies? I want to cry.

[StannisWins]

It's going to be a loooong break between season.

I liked the ep, but I see why people are upset about HotU.

All of this "I'm done with this show!" stuff is lame though. It's an adaption, some stuff has been close to perfect, some stuff never will be.

[cooper56]

You will never please book fans. Even in s1 with one little thing off they bitch. Its a tv show its not same story get it through your head its got to be addpted for tv books and tv and other media not the same.

[Eogh]

Yes, Dany's visions in the HotU were definitely striking visually, but other than that no real substance to them. Prophecies are dumped
Also, that scene with Drogo was mind-numbingly useless. Still, though there are certainly changes made that I do not enjoy and get annoyed by, can't say I hate the show or anything. Still love it.

[A Stark in Salem]

I didn't hate the episode overall, but my expectations hit rock bottom a few weeks ago so from that low anything even half-way decent has been OK for me. I have had to sort of take the approach of deciding I'm seeing a "summary version" of the books, with some poorly contrived and useless sections mixed in with some spot on scenes to make it worth staying with Yeah, the Others scene started out strong especially at a distance, but once you just see them shuffling along it got a little silly. Except the rotting horse- that was great and very like the book.

And seriously, why have Sam sitting there and the leader wight sees him? What, a fat crying coward is not worth chowing down on? Don't think so! Though one more line about Gilly and I would have been glad to see him chomped or skewered!

[Tarandor]

I can totally see why people will be upset, the HotU was fairly lackluster, and I really expected it to take up the majority of the episode...still that being said, I can't imagine ever saying I'll never watch again. I know it won't be perfect, I know they can't do everything. I have high hopes for next season, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Though... whyyyy did Quaithe make mention of Jorah's betrayal if they weren't even going to touch on the three? I thought for sure that since they brought that up it would be mentioned at the HotU.

[A Stark in Salem]

cooper56, on 03 June 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

You will never please book fans. Even in s1 with one little thing off they bitch. Its a tv show its not same story get it through your head its got to be addpted for tv books and tv and other media not the same.

Not true- 1st season was awesome, even when a few things diverged. And a few times some changes were for the better, or helped make a point more clearly. This season wasn't about little things, it was major plots and characters completely re-worked, often for no good reason, and always for the worse. It's not just budget stuff- that can be forgiven. It's many times simple things like what is said that totally changes the point of the story. No reason to screw with it so much and believe me, it will come back and bite the writers later on when all these things add up to huge mess that will be that much harder to resolve.

[sbjackdaw]

cooper56, how much can they change the story before it crosses the line from an adaptation to an 'inspired by'? Where is that line for you?

[Eogh]

My optimistic guess is that Dany will be visited by Quaithe sometime early next season where she will deliver the prophecies. That would go at least some way towards making up for their lack in the HotU. Also, quite liked the actress they have as Quaithe.

[Goral]

tsunad, on 03 June 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

The way it was adapted, the entire House of the Undying plot could have been cut with no damage to the plot or character development.

That's why I was skipping every Dany scene there was. To be honest I was skipping many of them.  Terrible season, although last 2 episodes (i.e. ep. 9 and 10) were decent.

[Bastard of Boston]

I can see why people are upset...I guess. The House of the Undying is a pretty pivotal point in the series, as is the "legend of Lyanna and Rhaegar." I still enjoy the show. Gotta say it's disheartening to see others are not, but such is life. It certainly keeps things lively around these parts. I feel like, warts and all, the show still has a lot to offer as a TV show. My entire stance has been that I can't begin to fathom the Herculean feat it is to adapt such an intricately woven series of novels, so I tend to always give the show the benefit of the doubt.

I have this wish that -- considering how long it takes GRRM to write the books -- that, when D&D run out of books to adapt, we'll get seasons dedicated to "flashing back" to Robert's Rebellion and drama which led up to it. I actually don't think it would be a bad idea. Maybe it would go a long way in repairing this disconnect which is developing between book purists and Game of Thrones production.

[Sxxman]

I sympathize with some of your points but to be honest (and don't take this personally) reading your post reinforces one of the main reasons why non-book readers despise those who have read the books.  The endless complaining about characters not being introduced or events happening in the books but not in the show and vice-versa.  There were warnings of this when the writers said that some characters introduction would be delayed until the next season....but people didn't listen.  They said that they would adapt the series as a whole not each individual book....but people didn't listen. Most complain about future plots being ruined when you DON'T KNOW HOW IT WILL END ON THE SHOW.  Some review episodes based on how close it is to the books rather than each episode on its merits. Don't bring me this "I don't care if it's the same...I just want good writing" because 95% of non-book readers love the writing on the show.  

If you don't like it...don't watch it and please don't spread your misery on to those who enjoy the series.  People have complained since SYRIO WAS SHOWN WITH HAIR!  You have your opinion, I respect it (despite what my rant suggests, I really don't hate any of ya'll lol) but you have to understand for those who love the show AND the books, it is depressing to see some of these comments.  Again I hate to sound like a broken record but I'm not trying to offend anyone or start a flame war.

[Gabriel Franco]

I think what HBO is doing is disrespectful
You CAN NOT just ignore important moments in character development like that
It's one thing to ADAPT or make small changes, but that's not what happening here

And they just don't care
Why? 'Cause people won't read the books anyway
They'll just watch the show and say "WOW, ain't HBO fantastic?"

Honestly? **** HBO and their TV series, **** you very much for the lack of consideration towards the people that actually liked the story


And to the people saying "Yeah, it sucks, but I'll keep on watching": have some self respect man!

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I will still watch the show, because I love watching the characters on screen, but I will try to separate it from the books. The only thing that upsets me is the feeling that the tv viewers are being cheated out of a great story. Unless you read the books, the show is starting to become a dark soap opera. It's difficult explaining to my friends and family how wonderfully awesome this series is when the show is turning it into such a joke.