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help with some English please


DirePenguin

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My dictionary proffers the same two pronunciations but suggests that both can be used to mean attentive to women, ie the pronunciation alone doesn't indicate a change of meaning. Which is good because I really wouldn't like us to transition to become a tonal language.

Some times people who have had some schooling in a foreign language prefer to use it's pronunciation rules when using (relatively recent) foreign origin words in English - particularly marked if they have spent time abroad and that pronunciation has become natural to them.

Otherwise it could just be an affectation of course :)

ETA: Hmm, etymological dictionary says that gallant was naturalised long ago as it came from old french galant. The sense of being a ladies' man was already current in the 16th century.

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Catelyn's chapter confused me. It sounds like Jon Arryn was the one needing a young wife to produce his heir, but then it also sounds like Hoster Tully forced Jon to accept Lysa as his bride in exchange for Riverrun's forces? And at the same time Hoster also forced Lysa to bed with Jon?

Especially confused when Catelyn mentioned Lysa would go to Jon's bed "soiled" ... is she implying something here (that's not Littlefinger)?

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Can't remember the exact lines, but, basically:

  1. Jon Arryn needs Hoster's support in the war.
  2. Lysa has been "soiled", ie she is not a virgin anymore (She slept with Littlefinger after he lost to Brandon and got super drunk. Of course HE thought it was Cat, but heh)
  3. Hoster is basically exchanging Lysa being honourably married against his help in the war, because in her condition, she would not likely find a good match anymore without that kind of bargain.

Of course, Jon needed a wife to give him children, so it's not as if it was only for the war, but if it was not for the war, he would likely have chosen another girl (bride to on of the high lords is almost the pinnacle of social ascension for women)

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Considering that Hoster had to get Lysa an abortion, he knows, and high level marriage can have someone check the virginity of the bride (like with Margaery, for example)

Plus, I'm reading the chapter now, and Cat says:

He needed a young wife if House Arryn was to continue... a young wife known to be fertile.

So it's likely Hoster actually told the facts to Jon himself.

Jon needs children and Hoster's support, Hoster tells him wedding Lysa can give him that... It's true, but that doesn't mean Jon has to like resorting to this solution, or like his wife at all.

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Hi, I was thinking for your first question, it could also mean that he wishes he never saw the place at all.

For this one, I don't think it means "wind" like "the wind in the trees" i think it means "wind" like "wind up toy" as in, he wound the scarf around his head but left a space for his mouth.

lol, you are really good at pointing GRRM's most awkward sentences. Both of these gave me a strong pause.

He should have use "windings".

DP: Wind in this usage is pronounced with a long I like in in "high".

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So it implied that Lysa was pregnant once with Littlefinger? But it sounded like Catelyn was only aware about Lysa's misscarriage, or did she know about that too?

Have you gotten to the part of Hoster on his sick bed yet? He says some things that clarify this

EDIT: Your threads are among my favorites!

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So it implied that Lysa was pregnant once with Littlefinger? But it sounded like Catelyn was only aware about Lysa's misscarriage, or did she know about that too?

It's actually pretty much stated, although GRRM style, so very indirect. Hoster Tully had an abortion induced in Lysa through the use of Tansey (don't try this at home). We become aware of this in Catelyn's POV chapters, but until then Catelyn only knows about the miscarriages that Lysa had.

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Thanks gougef :)

I think I'm understanding a bit better now. So Hoster's word meant Lysa had to abort her child to marry Jon Arryn ... which was possibly Littlefinger's... so that dual happened quite close to Robert's war. I was under impression that it happened much earlier than that. It makes sense now :D Thanks everyone.

So Tansy was the child's name? Or the abortion potion's name?

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Mummers are actors. Also in the book there is a mercenary company called the Bloody Mummers (also called the Brave Companions) who are based at Harrenhall. A band of them chase after Arya and her friends when they run away from Harrenhall.

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Returning to Lysa's virginity: I get the sense that it is considered of ill etiquette to discuss whether or not an unmarried elder daughter of a High Lord is still a virgin, even if it is fairly well known that she had an abortion or even whose child it would be. It would put the value of a marriage alliance into doubt, and be very insensitive from a political standpoint.

So I see Lysa's pregnancy as a secret, but not a terribly well-guarded one.

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Dire Penguin, be careful when using the wiki. It will spoil a lot for you since it takes all five books into account and it´s not always completely correct.

The word dispute for example is a bad choice, since the royal House Baratheon of King´s Landing doesn´t acknowledge Robb as the King in the North and the Riverlands, and therefore doesn´t acknowledge the Starks as overlords of House Tully either.

In their eyes they´re both rebels and they are at war, which you could call a dispute, but the word is by no means strong enough to describe their rejection of Stark dominance over the Riverlands.

ETA: You might be interested in this blog by Leigh Butler. She´s doing a first time read of the series at Tor.com and has just finished A Clash of Kings and should start A Storm of Swords next week. She usualy does two chapters a week.

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