[BOOK SPOILERS] Season 5 episode 9 event?

[YTDN]

I think Season 4 will end with Dany chaining up the dragons. Apparently they cast the guy whose daughter is roasted by Drogon. It would also be a good place to end the season marking Dany's decision to stay in Mereen and rule. Chaining up the dragons is symbolic of postponing her conquer of Westeros and her attempt to make peace instead of war.

Daario could eat the locusts and get sick if they decide not to make him a hostage.

Or Missandei could eat the locusts.

[titanx5]

Ive got a strong feeling that Yarasha will get captured by Stannis in s4, thus skipping the whole deepwood motte battle. I think in middle of s5 (perhaps 3 or e4) Stannis will just march straight to Winterfell, but will show him getting stuck in the snow storm. And will end in s5 exactly like that WoW theon sample chapter.

D&D seem to love givin Dany always the last scene in the finale, so recon we r goin see her fly on Drogon in the final scene. Think it would be great also having Jon gettin julio cesared on e10 but may see it in e9.

In regards to to AFOC/ADOD think s5 and some parts of s6, but they will need at least 2 seasons for WoW, as book is apparently goin b bigger than SOS. So s6 and 7 for WoW. Recon it will b at least 8 seasons, 7 seasons is way to short

[Colonel Green]

Or Missandei could eat the locusts.

Or a random extra.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Or Missandei could eat the locusts.

Show Missandei can eat the locusts for me, I wanted the 10-year old little girl.... ETA: from the books. In a totally non-perverted way.

[johnnysd]

People that think that the majority of viewers would suddenly stop watching if season 5 was a bit slower and more uneventful clearly don't watch much television. Good serial dramas rarely lose viewers even after a slow or boring season. Sons of Anarchy increased in viewers after season 3. The Walking Dead increased in viewers after season 3. Dexter was increasing in viewers right up until the final episode despite the last four seasons being almost universally considered to be absolute crap. Why would the opposite happen for Game of Thrones?

Assuming S5 ends at roughly the same place as AFfC and S6 contains a mix of TWoW and ADwD material running parallel to each other:

S5 itself would have the highest viewership of any season, as it would be coming off the high of S4. The worst case scenario would then be a slight decline between S5 and S6. The loss of over half the viewership, like some are predicting, would never happen and GoT would still be, by far, HBO's highest viewed show. However, the most likely scenario, based on the viewership of other shows, would be steady ratings between S5 and S6, or even a slight increase. And just for the record, such a season 5 would still be better than most shows on tv, and I would argue that it would still be better than season 2.

And then S6 would contain the last (best) section of ADwD as well as some TWoW material, and depending on that TWoW material it would have the potential to be one of the best seasons. Any viewers that might be lost between S5 and S6 would be regained between S6 and S7

As for the the total number of seasons, although they keep saying 8 seasons is their goal, I don't think 9 seasons has been ruled out. As for the cost of the actors: yes, seasons 8 and 9 would see sequential increases in the cost for actors that have been around since the first 2 seasons. However, what people often forget is seasons 7 and 8 (and 6, depending on the TWoW material) will likely see a number major deaths rivalling season 4. Although the cost for some actors would rise, they would simultaneously save money on actors who are no longer needed.

I've said it before and I will say it again, I think the most ideal plan for the show would be:

S5: AFfC + the first 1/2 - 2/3 of ADwD

S6: the rest of ADwD + the first 1/4 - 1/3 of TWoW

S7: the rest of TWoW

S8: ADoS

Possible S9: the second half of ADoS OR book 8 if there is one.

I expect them to be completely done with AFfC and ADwD by the end of season 5

[Ser Tahu]

For Daenerys I think they are just bringing elements of her ADwD storyline forward (ie losing control of the dragons), while most of her ADwD stuff is kept back for season 5. In other words I think they are changing the order of events a bit.

As for the 'tv unfriendly' aspects of AFfC and ADwD: I would argue that the storylines themselves would work well on tv, D&D just need to change the focus of them. Change the focus of Cersei's storyline from meeting with Lords to her scheming. Change the focus of Daenerys' storyline from her eating figs and lusting after Daario to the shadow war and preparing for the Yunkish siege. In Jon's storyline drop the food shortage and emphasise Janos' scheming and treating with the wildlings (if his storyline takes two seasons I would say S5 = the election, dealing with Stannis' demands and Janos' scheming. S6 = treating with the Wildlings, interfering with the Karstarks and putting up with the tv equivalent of Bowen Marsh (who I suspect will be Alliser Thorne))

For the compression vs pacing issues argument, I would say that having just one of the battles in season 5 would mean we are left with both compression AND pacing issues. As you probably all know by now, I am very strongly of the belief that S5 should end at roughly the same place as AFfC. Yes, that would mean that Sansa, Bran and Davos will be out of AFfC/ADwD material at the start of S6, while others (Jon and Barristan) have ADwD stuff until the last few episodes of S6. However, that lines up with how it is in the books; Sansa, Davos and Bran's chapters (and Aeron's, for that matter) are all done ~1/3-1/2 of the way through ADwD. It is almost guaranteed that their first TWoW chapters (or possibly even their first few chapters) will happen, chronologically, at the same time as the second half of ADwD. So even though they would finish Feast/Dance stuff at a very different time to some other character, I don't think it would affect the timeline and pacing as much as you might think.

ETA: oh, and I think Grey Worm will eat the locusts. And if I am correct in thinking that the fighting pits will be in 5x09 and the battle of Meereen in 6x09, I think Grey Worm will also replace Skahaz as Barristan's co-conspirator.

[Queen of Whores]

I hope they do Barristan's coup similarly to Ned's (albeit failed) one in 1x7. That was paced perfectly, and was my favourite episode of the series. On further thought, one of the above posters was right in that most of Barristan's chapters are filled with him reflecting on the old days and questioning his honour. A few lines to his co-conspirator, whoever that may be, questioning what they are doing will suffice. I just hope they actually show it, especially awesome parts like Barristan killing the pit fighter and Hizdahr crying in the corner, and specifically this line: "You would break the king's peace, old man?" "I would shatter it."

[WatcherInTheNight]

Seasons 5 and 6 with have aDWD and AFFC combined they will not split the seasons like he split the books because they have to have story continuity and cannot explain it like GRRM did. I think the big "WTF" moment of episode 9 season four is going to be Lady Stoneheart. The scene with Merrett Frey walking up to the BwB and getting strung up could be just as shocking as it was reading the epilogue.

[Colonel Green]

Seasons 5 and 6 with have aDWD and AFFC combined they will not split the seasons like he split the books because they have to have story continuity and cannot explain it like GRRM did.

Um, I don't believe anyone was suggesting that.

[pleonasm]

Given the I think that Feast and Dance will be significantly compressed along with some other big changes from the books (the purists will be up in arms), I'd expect episode 9 with feature a number of the cliffhangers from both books. The most prominent being the slave pit fight (including Tyrion) with Danny riding off with her Dragon, Arya blinded, Jon's death and Theon's escape from Winterfell. This would leave Danny's encounter with the Dothraki for the final episode of the season.

Seasons 6-8 will be the Winds of Winter/Dreams of Spring and some straggler story-lines from Feast and Dance.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

I hope they do Barristan's coup similarly to Ned's (albeit failed) one in 1x7. That was paced perfectly, and was my favourite episode of the series. On further thought, one of the above posters was right in that most of Barristan's chapters are filled with him reflecting on the old days and questioning his honour. A few lines to his co-conspirator, whoever that may be, questioning what they are doing will suffice. I just hope they actually show it, especially awesome parts like Barristan killing the pit fighter and Hizdahr crying in the corner, and specifically this line: "You would break the king's peace, old man?" "I would shatter it."

If the coup isnt included I may cry. Hopefully they will include Quentyn (or at least an equivilent) so that Barristan's coup can be cut with scenes of dragontaming. Be interesting to watch; one succeeds, one fails, and the one that fails has an impact on the one that succeeds ( ending of the episode: Meereen is burning)

[TheDornishKnight]

If the coup isnt included I may cry. Hopefully they will include Quentyn (or at least an equivilent) so that Barristan's coup can be cut with scenes of dragontaming. Be interesting to watch; one succeeds, one fails, and the one that fails has an impact on the one that succeeds ( ending of the episode: Meereen is burning)

Indeed, that would definitely be an episode to look forward to.

It might not happen at the same time but having it happen in the same episode would be satisfactory too.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

And it seems like an awesome episode 2,3 or 4 btw.. It's action, but it's not decisive one. I'm just having a hard time seeing all that in a 10 episode season, so yeah I agree I wish for the prolonged season there :)

We'll see, just have patience guys (and girls) :)

[Blutrabe]

As for the 'tv unfriendly' aspects of AFfC and ADwD: I would argue that the storylines themselves would work well on tv, D&D just need to change the focus of them. Change the focus of Cersei's storyline from meeting with Lords to her scheming. Change the focus of Daenerys' storyline from her eating figs and listing after Daario to the shadow war and preparing for the Yunkish siege. In Jon's storyline drop the food shortage and emphasise Janos' scheming and treating with the wildlings (if his storyline takes two seasons I would say S5 = the election, dealing with Stannis' demands and Janos' scheming. S6 = treating with the Wildlings, interfering with the Karstark's and putting up with the tv equivalent of Bowen Marsh (who I suspect will be Alliser Thorne))

That's my thinking as well. Those who say that the storylines must be compressed because they're boring are looking at them the wrong way.

They also seem to underestimate the sheer amount of storylines that must be told in S5 and take up screen time. So in order to reach the end of ADWD in S5, they'd have to take out enormous amounts of content. Let's take Meereen as an example. It is possible to have the battle in S5, but the plot would need to be like this:

- Yunkai lays siege to Meereen

- Hizdahr offers to broker a peace if Dany agrees to marry him

- (Quentyn is introduced; Dany shows him the dragons)*

- Hizdahr is successful; Dany marries him

- The fighting pit; Drogon's rampage; the Yunkaii revoke the peace

- Hizdahr intends to deliver Dany's folk to the Yunkaii

- Barristan seizes Hizdahr; (Quentyn releases the dragons)*

- Battle

* It only makes sense to include Quentyn if the Dorne plot is also included.

If the Battle of Meereen is in episode 5.09, the fighting pit scene would need to be in 5.07 at the latest with the wedding probably an episode earlier. Quentyn would need to be introduced by midseason, which would render Doran's fire and blood revelation impossible.

There are repercussions for other storylines as well. Tyrion's storyline would only work if they radically shortened the boat trip (e.g. by cutting the Sorrows, which would be a pity - especially if Connington's greyscale is of importance), cut Penny and their involvement in the fighting pit scene:

- Tyrion arrives at Pentos

- He meets Connington and Aegon

- Trip down the Rhoyne

- Arrival at Volantis; Tyrion is kidnapped by Jorah

- They embark on a ship to Meereen; meet Moqorro

- Shipwrecked and captured by slavers

- Sold at Meereen to Brown Ben Plumm or whoever takes his place

- Battle

Tyrion and Jorah's capture can't take place later than episode 5.07. Victarion needs to pick up Moqorro at about the same time, so he has to be on his way to Dany before midseason or else he'd travel even faster than Littlefinger. It's needless to say that there wouldn't be a kingsmoot (unless it's in S4, which is unlikely considering the lack of casting news for the Greyjoy brothers).

The northern storylines (Jon, Stannis, Theon, Davos) are much more difficult to fit into one season, at least if we want to have their natural conclusion, the Battle in the Ice, to be included. I think this might not be possible. Stannis would have to be on his way to Winterfell by midseason, so the Lord Commander's election would need to be in S4 (we talked about that). Wyman Manderly would have to send Davos to Skagos around midseason as well in order to be at Winterfell in time. I think it might make sense to move Davos' story to S4, but again we've had no news about Manderly being cast. Roose Bolton will probably return north during S4, so Theon's story can start when they go to Winterfell for Ramsay's wedding.

- Jon sends Sam, Aemon and Gilly to Oldtown; he executes Janos Slynt

- The false Mance Rayder is executed; the Wildlings are let through the Wall

- Stannis leaves for Winterfell

- Mance is revealed to be alive and sent to Winterfell

- Jon accommodates the Wildlings to the dismay of the Watch

- Ramsay marries fake Arya.

- Mance helps Theon and fArya to flee

- Theon is captured by Stannis

- (Battle?)

- Pink letter; Jon is assassinated

So, no Val, no Alys Karstark, actually no Karstarks at all, no Umbers, no mysterious murders in Winterfell, no Hardhome.

I did my best with compressing those storylines into one season arcs. But they are still quite time consuming. And there are still many missing:

- Cersei and the Tyrells at King's Landing (just as time consuming as the above three)

- Jaime at Riverrun

- Arya in Braavos

- Sansa and Littlefinger in the Vale

- Bran's greenseer training

- Sam's travels

- Davos

- Victarion

- Dorne

- Aegon and Connington

- possibly Brienne with the BWB

Now PLEASE tell me how all of this shall be packed in just 10 hours of television?! This would be THE most rushed season of television I'd have ever seen. No original character scenes that weren't in the book, no gratuitious sex scenes, nothing that has been so typical for the show so far (ok, don't take the last sentence too seriously ;)). Look at how fast the plot has advanced in the last two seasons and compare them with this one. So either they split AFFC/ADWD up into two seasons (including stuff from TWOW) or they chop the storylines down until, come S6, the show will hardly have anything in common with the books anymore.

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ETA: oh, and I think Grey Worm will eat the locusts. And if I am correct in thinking that the fighting pits will be in 5x09 and the battle of Meereen in 6x09, I think Grey Worm will also replace Skahaz as Barristan's co-conspirator.

This is probably the first time that I must disagree with you. :-) I don't trust Skahaz a bit and I'm convinced that he'll backstab Barristan somehow, which I think Grey Worm would never do.

[Douglas Dubh]

depedning on how Jon's assassination is resolved in TWOW, I think AFFC/ADWD will be 14 episodes so that Jon's assassination is episode 4 of season 6.

I am skeptical that they could get through most of Feast and Dance in one season, but it might be possible to do it in a season and a half. Instead of compressing stuff enough so that the pink letter happens at the end of season 5, or including enough stuff so that it happens at the end of season 6, it is possible that D &D know enough about what happens in Winds that they figure they can have the pink letter happen midway through season 6.

Season 5 episode 9 could include Cersei's imprisonment, Theon's escape from Winterfell, and Dani's visit to the fighting pits. Then episode 10 could have the Karstark wedding at the Wall, Jamie burning Cersei's letter, and Quentyn releasing the dragons.

The first part of season 6 could have the battle of Winterfell, Barristan's coup, and Cersei's walk of shame, capped off with the pink letter. Then the second half of season 6 could deal with the battle of Meereen and whatever else happens in the early part of Winds.

[Queen of Whores]

No Alys Karstark? Blasphemy! She is awesome! The only girl I will accept Jon with!

No Hooded Man or mysterious murders? Well what the fuck is exactly gonna happen in this story? BTW, I'm not saying what you said is stupid, Blutrabe, merely that if D&D follow the scenario you laid out, I'm gonna be pissed off. Theon's story in Dance was the best in the entire series, in my opinion, and TV audiences should experience the same (well, not quite the same, since it would be impossible to evoke such emotion like the book did) greatness that we readers did, and that means including everything possible in Winterfell. I know it's very unlikely, but one can hope.

[DaveyJoe]

I don't think there's anyway we'll get the battles of ice and fire in the same season. Strictly from a budgetary perspective it's impractical. We almost didn't get the battle of Blackwater Bay back in season 2. If the producers get funding for a major battle, they'll probably want it to take up an entire episode, like Blackwater and the Wall. It's going to be very interesting to see how things play out.

[Colonel Green]

There are repercussions for other storylines as well. Tyrion's storyline would only work if they radically shortened the boat trip (e.g. by cutting the Sorrows, which would be a pity - especially if Connington's greyscale is of importance), cut Penny and their involvement in the fighting pit scene:

- Tyrion arrives at Pentos

- He meets Connington and Aegon

- Trip down the Rhoyne

- Arrival at Volantis; Tyrion is kidnapped by Jorah

- They embark on a ship to Meereen; meet Moqorro

- Shipwrecked and captured by slavers

- Sold at Meereen to Brown Ben Plumm or whoever takes his place

- Battle

The first several items on that list can all take place in Pentos, for starters.

[King Zee]

I am skeptical that they could get through most of Feast and Dance in one season, but it might be possible to do it in a season and a half. Instead of compressing stuff enough so that the pink letter happens at the end of season 5, or including enough stuff so that it happens at the end of season 6, it is possible that D &D know enough about what happens in Winds that they figure they can have the pink letter happen midway through season 6.

Season 5 episode 9 could include Cersei's imprisonment, Theon's escape from Winterfell, and Dani's visit to the fighting pits. Then episode 10 could have the Karstark wedding at the Wall, Jamie burning Cersei's letter, and Quentyn releasing the dragons.

The first part of season 6 could have the battle of Winterfell, Barristan's coup, and Cersei's walk of shame, capped off with the pink letter. Then the second half of season 6 could deal with the battle of Meereen and whatever else happens in the early part of Winds.

agreed. Its the Goldilocks dilemma. One season is too short and two seasons is too long. If they have GRRM telling them upfront the outcomes of the assassination and the battles they can plan for those events to happen in Season 6.

[oierem]

I don't think there's anyway we'll get the battles of ice and fire in the same season. Strictly from a budgetary perspective it's impractical. We almost didn't get the battle of Blackwater Bay back in season 2. If the producers get funding for a major battle, they'll probably want it to take up an entire episode, like Blackwater and the Wall. It's going to be very interesting to see how things play out.

And that's a good reason to believe that one of the has to happen in season 5. Season 7 is clearly too late for any of them, and if season 6 can't have them both....